I’m sure there are hundreds of topics on this but can’t seem to find them. So here I go…I’m just now trying to wire up my DCC layout. I’m using Peco Insluforog switches.
As I attached feeder wires to the end of my dead end track I ran a test. When coming off the main line into track I have power, but when I line switch back to main I loose power. How do I keep that track live at all times? I relalize these are power routing switches but how can I keep them live at all times?
Chad
If I understand what you did, you connected the power to the end of the spur. Power connections should be at the point end of the turnout, not at the frog end.
So I need to add feeders to the the end by the throw bar correct?
Whoa! If your feeders attach to the end of the spur, you should always have power on the spur. The condition you describe reads as though the feeders attach to the points end of the power-routing turnout that would route power to the spur when lined for the spur and the main when lined for the main. Did you correctly describe what you have?
Dante
P.S. Or when you say you lose power, are you losing power on the main or the spur? And where do you feed the main?
Im uploading a video showing what my issue is on youtube. As soon as it’s there I’ll post the link.
Yes. The first part of this video link might help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmTl4TRA9go.
If you feed the power at the point end, the power will be routed in the direction that the points are thrown. The other route will be dead because of the frog insulation. However, if you want everything live all the time you can add feeders beyond the frog, but you will need them on each route. You can do this safely with the insulfrog, again because the frog is insulated. So in a simple case you would need three sets of feeders.
Now if you happen to use electrofrog turnouts and want everything live you would need the same three sets of feeders. You would also need to add insulators at each of the frog rails to prevent a short through the frog.
Here is the video
Quote:
ChadMichaels wrote the following post an hour ago:
Here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzqrKkh3AOM
Made your link clickable:
Frank
Chad, the feeder wires that you soldered to the ends of that spur track must not be connected to the main bus wires. That is the only way that the condition shown on the video could occur.
If the feeders were wired to the main bus wires, there would be continous power to the spur because you wired the spur. But, on the video, once the loco is on the spur, when you throw the point back to the main, the power routing feature of the Insulfrog cuts power to the spur.
Incidentally, at 1:19 of the video, you say that you threw the switch back to the main but the loco is still moving on the spur. That would seem to contradict my assumption that the feeder wires on the spur are not connected to the main bus wires. However, a few seconds later on the video, we see you throwing the points to the main and then power is lost to the spur track, consistent with my assumption. So, my question to you is what did you do at 1:19 of the video. If you threw the switch back to the main, why were the point rails still thrown divergent when your camera moved to show the switch?
Rich
When I want to keep the diverging route alive on a Peco Insulfrog switch, I add short jumpers undernieth the switch before I install it. I cut the plastic strip between the ties on the underside of the switch and solder solid wire between the stock rail and the lead rail just behind the points. I do it on both stockrails. This keeps both routes through the switch alive at all times. And if I want to isolate the track later I can just cut a gap and glue in some Styrene to keep the gap from closing.
Is it possible to remove the turnout still? If so, a rewire of it will make ALL your issues go away…also you reliance of the mechanical-electrical connection that will eventually fail.
Peco are power routing switces. This is useful in DC systems where you want to have an engine sit off on the spur and not respond to throttle commands.
To Fix:
For every track past the frog, you need to have feeder wires on the + and - leg. You also need to gap the inside rails, just past the frog. I know because I did the conversion for our club to DCC and had to work with PECOs.
There is an advantage to this. If you approach the turnout backwards and against the points (switch thrown the wrong way) the loco will cut out before it derails. (But you’ll also get a short) Make sure you have a breaker set to 3 amps or less.
This is going to be interesting to see how this issue is resolved by the OP.
He has wired the far end of that spur track, so if it is wired properly to the bus wires, it should be live at all times regardless of which way the point rails are thrown. So, adding short jumpers to the underside of the Insulfrog is redundant.
Rich
I don’t get David’s or Don’s reply.
If you look at Chad’s video, he has feeder wires on both rails at the far end of the spur track. If these feeders are properly wired to the main bus wires, that entire strip of spur track should be live right up to where the spur track connects to the divergent end of the Insulfrog turnout.
Rich
I don’t believe that this is necessary for Insulfrogs.
My take on this, is poor soldering of the wires on the far end of that spur track. I would redo this wiring.
Agreed, no gaps required on the Insulfrog. On the other hand, gaps are required on the Electrofrog, on the inside mainline rail and on the inside diverging rail.
But no matter which type of Peco turnout, the OP has the feeder wires placed on the far end of the spur track, so the entire spur track should be powered right up to the turnout. Should be!
Rich
If he has ‘fed’ the spur track ANYWHERE from the servicing turnout granting access to it to the spur’s end, the entire spur is always live.
If his servicing turnout is a power-routing turnout, the entire turnout will be powered…all rails, because it is also power routing and fed at the throwbar end. IOW, because he has joined all rails leading to the servicing turnout, and because he has fed all rails leading to the turnout, whether spur or main, and because the turnout routes power BOTH ways, his rails on the spur should always be live, and so should all rails on the turnout. IF his wipers under the turnout are making the right contact at the right times, even his closure rails will be live all the time because he’s feeding them via the power-routing feature, only backwards from the hot spur.
I think we are assuming this. I did not see any feeders at the point end. Also, when he backs the loco down the main and crosses the turnout he says he still has power when he throws the turnout. If that is true, why does the sound momentarily cut out when the turnout is thrown to the siding?
I’m also wondering if he has one set of feeders connected to the incorrect bus and is really seeing a short.
maxman, you raise an excellent point. When he first throws the point rails to divergent and announces that he still has power, the prime mover goes silent for a moment.
I noticed that both times that I viewed the video but never mentioned it, so, advantage maxman.
Rich