I’m confused, is amtrak making new tunnels, are the tunnels getting overhauled? There is so much noise but there is no clear answer.
Yes there is. One nobody’s doing anything except talk and complain about costs. And each weekend one of the two Hudson River tunnels is closed for work…track? signals? drainage? infrastructure?
A good place to start might be this package of PDF files from Amtrak about the first stage of the Gateway project.
As usual with this sort of material, read carefully and critically, watching for what they do not say as carefully as what they do. The notable thing in my opinion is how significant the spending of the $185M in Hudson Yards is – you can imagine the trouble and cost of doing the work after that area has been built out – even in the absence of assured funding for most of the other critical elements of the Gateway plan so far.
Be assured that the old tunnels will be overhauled after the new ones are completed – you will find a discussion in the PDF material.
But Hudson Yard is a LIRR project and nothing to do with NJT or Amtrak or any traffic to and from west of the Hudson.
READ THE MATERIAL BEFORE YOU COMMENT.
The ‘caisson’ under the “Hudson Yards” REAL ESTATE PROJECT – on the far West Side where the LIRR, to my knowledge as a native New Yorker, has never gone – is intended to put the ‘transition route’ between the Gateway Hudson/North River tunnels themselves and the approaches to Penn Station in place, before all the pilings, foundation work, utilities, etc. to the new buildings in the development are built. I stand by the importance to Amtrak directly, and to NJT indirectly, and to LIRR only peripherally… ;-}
I have read it as an expansion of the LIRR yards west of NYP.
I think we may be looking at two separate aspects here. The part of Gateway that is being built now is essentially a tunnel for the two-track right of way, below the grade of any ‘yard’ that might be built on the Hudson Yards property. It reserves the alignment that the tunnel trackage would follow from the ‘stormproof’ tunnels up to where the two tracks would enter whatever Penn Station trackage (existing or ‘new’) the Gateway project is intended to access. I would presume (or at least ASSume, taking the corresponding risk!) that this would run ‘under’ any arrangement of holding tracks that might be built ‘under’ the real-estate project buildings. If there is to be a LIRR holding yard there, it underscores the importance of putting in the low-level Gateway approach infrastructure now.
I do have to wonder why there’s a need for expanded LIRR holding capacity west of where the Empire Connection holding yard (or whatever it’s properly called) is, when that capacity wouldn’t be substantially finished until, presumably much LIRR traffic has been redirected into the GCT low-level project after that project is finished in 2018… or at any rate long before Gateway is seeing revenue traffic. I apologize if I am missing something significant there.
I don’t think there is a simple answer to what the LIRR (re)arranging is all about. Yes, there will be, supposedly, less traffic with the GCT line introduced. But, also, they are looking to both cut the number of deadhead movements thus easing congestion on the four tracks under the East River and to clear space for new platforms and other real estate and development under for the “new” Penn Sta., the Moynahan Station complex which is on the site of the former Post Office west of the present NYP.
Here is a somewhat blurred architectural drawing of what I believe is the portion of the Gateway tunnel currently under construction, from this article on the project, showing the ultimate above-ground development scheme.
Compare this with the modified aerial photograph that shows how the ‘Amtrak tunnels’ are supposed to enter the actual NYP track complex; I believe this is east and a bit north of where the real-estate project above is, but note that (unless I am more than usually mistaken) it is at a lower level than the other tracks even this close to the station. It was my understanding that the grade and curve profile was to be optimized for higher-speed operation (or at least higher permissible acceleration for westbound departures) as part of the “220 mph” ultimate improvement program for the NEC. Even with the higher permissible tunnel gradient to be used for ‘gravity braking’ into NYP, imho the vertical curve requirements probably produce net lower approach levels (at least on the Manhattan side)
Cannot zoom in and yet be in focus…but at 175% it appears this is a drawing which highlights and magnifies certain sections. Thus the Amtrak line is not in any kind of scale but is shown as to how it might be brought from the Highline alignment into the station complex. Doesn’t clear anything up because it is basically out of context?
Try this video to get a sense of how the east platform is arranged.
Hudson Yards east platform development
And this is an interesting description of the methodology used for the west platform:
Video from the Architect’s Newspaper LLC
The $185 million approach tunnel ‘box’ follows the line shown here (in gray), at lower level than the ‘yard’ tracks, as noted. (There is or was at least one good 3D view that shows how the Gateway tunnel approach is routed up to and through NYP/“Moynihan”, but I can’t find it now.) I apologize for this being hard to read.
It should now be less confusing to see why it was important to put this section of Gateway in now, rather than trying to worm it under a completed set of caissons under a completed east platform structure…
Neither of these links actually address what Amtrak/NJT/LIRR have to do nor how they are going to do it. It initial post postermap shows what amounts to the Albany main cutting across the plane above the tracks but below the platform in a new tunnel but without explanation beyond that. The only thing I can determine in all this is the LIRR’s new Hudson Yard has nothing to do with the real estate development named Hudson Yards. The “future Amtrak tunnel” makes little sense without further explanation…gateway to and from where? becomes a starting point.
Perhaps this map that shows the plan of the proposed Gateway trackage from the river up to the new south platforms will give you a better idea. I’m not sure what’s supposed to be confusing about the wider context – but here it is for all to see.
It’s a little premature to map the ‘exact’ route that the Gateway tunnels will take under the Hudson, but my understanding is that the west portal will be where NJT proposed the ARC tunnel’s would go, at the ‘new’ Tonnelle Avenue underpass south of the existing North River Tunnel portals. There is supposed to be a parcel on the other side of the Palisades which was taken last year, via eminent domain, for about $8.5M; it would imho be safe to assume that this is either on the proposed tunnel routing or close enough to serve as the location for heading shafts or TBM access.
The approach from Newark is well-established enough, I thought, to need no particular discussion; it lies to the south/east of the existing NYCR all the way up, then has longer reverse curves (I thought to allow higher speed, but who knows; I don’t think refined engineering or even ROW work in that area has been funded, let alone conducted).
There has been extensive discussion of the ‘new’ fixed Portal Bridge replacement. Gateway would use a two-track fixed bridge at slightly greater span height, with appropriate vertical curving – one sketch I have seen involves through bowstring trusses to minimize the structure deck height, but again most if not all of the actual engineering is yet to be funded.
The tunnel box funding appears to be kinda accidental, being related to the Hurricane Sandy remediation aid. Remains to be seen ho
Yes…this map shows what the Gateway tunnel is compared to existing tunnels. And the tracks have nothing to do with either of the two real estate developments. LIRR’s new Hudson Yard project has nothing to do with Hudson Yards…
Hudson Yards project buries much railroad history. Abraham Lincoln came right through there on a train in 1861, down 11th Ave. to 33rd, then diagonally southeast to the station at 10th and 30th. The loss of sunlight on the LIRR storage yard reminds me: the east portals of the Hudson River tunnels were visible once. Now they’re under the front door of that pyramid-shape building PRR gave air rights to in 1967.