I read a while back that Amtrak was considering connecting a sleeper from the Capitol Limited to the Pennsylvanian at Pittsburgh so the historic route of the Broadway would at last have through service again. But the newly posted timetable shows nothing. Not only that, for persons wanting to transfer from the Capitol Limited to the Pennsylvanian eastbound at Pittsburgh, there is a four hour layover!
Any word if this is still in the works?
I do not recall if Amtrak has had any positive thoughts on how it would handle operating a Viewliner sleeper on the Capitol. Does Amtrak have stepdown cars?
As to the current connections in Pittsburgh, the two hour wait eastbound is worse than the four hour wait westbound, considering that #30 is due in Pittsburgh at 5:05 in the morning. Would a setout sleeper be considered, with occupancy at 9:00 pm, and vacancy by 7:30 am? If daily through service were inaugurated, three sleepers would be required.
It is a possibility once some Viewliner-2s are in service. Until then forget it not enough Viewline-1s… The Capitol limited has a transition superliner in its consist so the 2 level train is no problem,.
Another problem is that at present Amtrak needs a switch replaced at Pittsburgh station so that the car can be switched in and out of the Capitol. That IMHO is especially important if for some reason there is a late train that causes 2 opposite direction sleepers to be present in Pittsburgh at the same time.
Somewhat murky is where the sleeper would originate. Although Amtrak could block any reservations from / to NYP AMTK might allow reservations Newark south / west. Another idea would be for the sleeper to originate in PHL. However since Sunnyside yard now handles all the single level cars that option appears very unlikely.
All this is in the Amtrak PRIIA report on the Capitol limited
Additionally if there is an equipment problem —
If the present Viewliner-2 order is extended to add coaches then once those coaches were added to the sold out low level consists then the Capitol could bcome a single level train as it is very often sold out.
Also the possibility that there becomes a shortage of Superliners the Capitol could go single level once Viewliner-2s sleepers are built however where to find the coaches ?.
All this possible need to manipulate consists points out the need now for more rolling stock.
The Viewliner II order with CAF has options for up to 70 additional cars, but the options are only for baggage, baggage-dorms, sleeper, diner cars. Any order for coach cars, based on the Viewliner II design or not, would be an entirely new order which would have to go through an open bid process. As for the options, it is doubtful that Amtrak will be able to exercise any part of the option with CAF, given the funding cuts and shortfalls they are facing and the poor prospects for any significant increase in federal capital grants for the next 2 fiscal years. Amtrak is likely scrambling to pay for the 130 car order.
For additional coaches for the LD trans, one possibility is to convert the Horizon coach cars to LD configuration as the Horizons get freed up in the Midwest when the new bi-level corridor cars are delivered.
The last I read is that the through cars on the Pennsylvanian are still in the plans, but is on hold until enough Viewliner II cars are delivered. The Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited schedule would likely flip on the departure times from Chicago, but major schedule changes for those trains is waiting for CSX to wrap up clearance projects in MD & PA and may be waiting for other track improvements projects on the routes to make some progress.
Amtrak would need to answer at least two questions before adding a through sleeper from NYC or Philadelphia to Chicago on the Pennsylvanian and Capitol Limited.
Has the Pennsylvania Legislature ponied up the $4.5 to $6 million per year to continue the Pennsylvanian? According to a story that appeared several months ago in the New York Times, the jury was out on whether the legislature would put up the money. If the state does not fund the train, it is probably history.
What is the market demand for a through sleeping car from Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia, Paoli, etc.? If it is not sufficient to generate enough revenue to off set the incremental cost of the service, Amtrak should not be adding any capacity anywhere.
The reason I raised the question in the first place is that from my perspective there is an unserved market: Chicago and west going to points in Pennsylvania and Philadelphia and visa versa. You cannot get to Philly without a change of trains today. Since I had read somewhere that Amtrak was considering making the connection, I presumed (hoped) a market survey has been done to justify the cost. (and of course it appears that Pennsylvania will have to continue funding the Pennsylvanian itself!)
If so, then the issues raised here about Viewliner equipment availability would be the operative question. When available, it would appear that the necessary schedule adjustments would be a minor issue.
By the way, where is the height limitation that prohibits Superliner equipment on this route, in 30th Street Satition?
PA has agreed to provide $4.8 million in subsidy for the Pennsylvanian service. This was restated by PennDOT after the state legislature failed in the last day before the July 1 budget bill had to be passed to come to an agreement to raise the state gas tax and increase transportation funding. The state legislature will try again in the fall on gas taxes and increasing state transportation funding, but the Pennsylvanian is safe for the next year at least.
As for market demand, read the 2010 PRIIA Capitol Limited Product Improvement Plan report which discusses adding the through cars from the Pennsylvanian (On the Amtrak website on the Reports & Documents page). The 2010 report predicts an increase of 20,400 in ridership and a 4% improvement in the cost recovery ratio. The ridership increase projection is likely on the conservative side. The plan has been around since 2010, but Amtrak has not been able to implement it because they don’t have 3 Viewliner sleepers available for the 3 train sets (one Viewliner sleeper, 2 Amfeet IIs, 1 Amfleet cafe car per pass-through set). The delivery of the Viewliner II sleepers will fix the shortage.
alan: Where did you source this ? I had not ever been able to know the exact order with CAF.
The 3 Viewliner sleepers and Amfleet II coaches can be mustered by transferring them from the LAKESHORE. The PENNSYLVANIAN currently runs with an Amfleet cafe car. That being said the other obstacle seems to be the switch that NS removed some years ago,
In November I rode 29 thru Pittsburgh. During the station stop there several people on the platform were discussing the lack of progress with the 2010 PRIIA CAPITOL/PENNSYLVANIAN improvement plan. A question arose as to how the PENNSYLVANIAN sets itself for its eastbound run. According to one person after the train arrives in Pittsburgh it continues west where it either wyes or goes on a balloon track at Conway yard (he wasn’t sure which-anybody know for sure?). It then procedes back to the station where it backs into a siding for the next mornings eastbound departure.
If the above scenario is correct there may be a way to initiate this improvement without the cost of replacing the removed switch. Eastbound would be the least complex operation as 30 would come into the station at a more reasonable AM time, discharge and receive passengers and then before departing the NY section would be uncoupled and remain at the station. Once 30 had cleared the station 42 could then pull out from its siding track onto the main line, back up and couple onto the NY cars and be on its way. Westbound would be a bit more involved. 29 and 43 would both have to arrive at Pittsburgh fairly close together ( I would reschedule 29 to arrive in Pittsburgh closer to 43’s arrival time). 29 would pull into the station first. 43 would follow 29 into the station but before going onto its siding track would uncouple the thru NY-Chicago cars. Once it was on the siding 29 would back up to couple these cars and then head westward. 43 could then back out onto the main line for its resetting procedure.
One major caveat here is of course Amtrak is not the Swiss National Railways in ei
If the state legislature failed to pass an budget and appropriations bill for the coming FY year, where does the PADOT get the money to continue the Pennsylvania?
The PRIIA C
The PA State legislature passed a budget on June 30. They ended up dropping the gas tax and transportation funding increase at the last minute because of disagreements on how much, how quickly, and how to allocate the additional funds between the state Senate and House. Really hurt SEPTA which is badly in need of additional capital funding for maintenance and improvement projects.
I was incorrect, the subsidy agreed to by Amtrak and PennDOT is $3.8 million for the next year. PennDOT has $20 million in unallocated transportation money that they were likely keeping in reserve for short notice outlays. See http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/4296700-74/million-penndot-service#axzz2ZSc3DHoV
IIRC, the 70 car option was mentioned in the news releases when the order with CAF was announced. The breakdown of the CAF options was widely discussed on other forums such as Amtrak Unlimited and railroad.net.
Alan,
Thanks for the update. John
It wyes at Island Ave.
Why do you say this, Sam? Amtrak doesn’t have to take a statistical sample. It has a census of the whole population of Amtrak riders.
I don’t know how Amtrak makes its projections. I have heard making projections is like driving your car by blacking out the windshield and looking through the rear view mirror. But projections are widely used.
John
Amtrak knows how many tickets it lifts and, therefore, how many passengers connect to or from the Pennsylvanian and Capitol Limited in Pittsburgh. This is descriptive statistics. Projecting how many people might ride a through coach and sleeping car from the Pennsylvania to the Capitol Limited and vice versa requires the use of inferential statistics. Amtrak does not tell us how it derived its estimates for this proposed enhancement.
The most effective way to determine the likely ridership would be to take a statistical sample of the population of potential riders. The population must be defined carefully, e.g. anyone over 18 and under 80 with sufficient income to be able to travel commercially.
The size of the sample would be a function of the confidence level, confidence interval, and sampling error. Whether the sample would be with or without replication would also impact its size. The sample must be random. That is to say, everyone in the population must have an equal probability of being selected.
The researchers must determine the best way to get the information, i.e. telephone interviews, questionnaires, personal interviews, focus groups, etc. They must build the queries so as not to bias the outcomes. These are challenging tasks. Most market research does not go beyond telephone interviews and follow-up questionnaires. It is too expensive. However, our company made extensive use of fo
Like you, Sam, I don’t know how Amtrak makes its projections. Amtrak could do market research by conducting a telephone survey and that research would have to be statistically valid and reliable. Maybe they do and maybe they don’t and if they do it at all I don’t know whether or not they do it on the Pennsylvanian.
They can also look at the trends based on their own sales of tickets. For that they have all of the data they need.
John
I imagine that there are several restricted clearances. The most difficult would have to be the Penn Station tubes below the Hudson & East Rivers. The tunnel approaches to Baltimore and to Washington Union stations come to mind, too. Possibly some bridges, too?
Superliners are rarely restricted by physical clearance issues on main lines that handle freight equipment. Their 16 ’ 4" height is 6" taller than traditional Budd Dome cars and other similar height cars. The bigger issue is possible contact with the overhead wire east of Harrisburg and on the Corridor. Superliners regularly operate under wire on the north (non-tunnel) approach to Washington Union Station on the Capitol Limited, and have operated into Philadelphia on special movements. Virginia Railway Express operates ex-C&NW 15’ 10" bilevels through the First St. Tunnel so there must be sufficient clearance for them, though maybe not for Superliners - at least with the overhead power on. Baltimore’s tunnels had (and may still have) gauntlet tracks for high equipment. A bigger issue is that all Corridor stations have high level platforms - not a good fit for Superliners! (DC has both high and low-level platfroms.) New York tunnels also have LIRR third rail which Superliners may not clear. Amtrak’s height restriction in the New York Teminal district with AC power on was 16’ 1 1/2".