What are the possibilities of a Conrail take-over of the Katy (instead of UP) in 1988?
Now, I’m not concerned as much about the financial and timing issues. Conrail was in the process of being privatized, so they obviously had other things on their hands right then; but, they were a profitable railroad…
If Conrail had the time/money/ability to look at this road, would it have made sense to buy/merge the Katy? I’ve always wondered why some of the roads in the Northeast didn’t try to expand southward to the Gulf Coast via a line such as the GM&O, IC, MKT, KCS or others.
My main question: would a CR+MKT combination make sense operationally (and financially in the long run)? It didn’t happen, but it’s always fun to dream…
MKT reached St. Louis from Parsons, KS on a line that followed the north bank of the Missouri and was prone to flooding. Around 1986 they gained trackage rights over MP from Sedalia.
The common connection between CR and MKT is a good question. The “connection” would have to be at St. Louis, but as was mentioned, the Katy abondoned their line to STL and began using the MP before '88. Therefore, the connection would be made through trackage/haulage rights, or possibly the rehabilitation of the Katy’s old line. Another possibility would be to use the old Rock Island line, which was pretty much let go after their liquidation. Again, I’m surprised Conrail didn’t pick it up for next to nothing to allow them access to Kansas City.
Why would IC be a better match than MKT?? Just curious as to some thoughts/ideas…
While my reply is not about Conrail + MKT, Conrail at one time did try to expand to the Southwest. They made a attempt for the COTTON BELT and wanted to get to Galveston, Texas. I think this was about the time UP was taking over the SP. Now what if Conrail would have got what they wanted? Would CR still be around today?
Well, wasn’t the SSW fully owned by SP, which itself was owned by DRGW (although they all operated under the SP flag)? And at the time of this takeover, it was the mid 90’s - right before NS and CSX split up Conrail. Was CR trying to take the Cotton Belt by saying they deserved that trackage in UP’s takeover of SP/DRGW/SSW? Unfortunetly, the Katy was gone by this point, so there weren’t too many other routes into Galveston that they could have acquired. IC was still around - get down to New Orleans and Shreveport that way. Interesting to hear about this CR-SSW proposal though! Always fun to think about!
Southern Pacific was trying to merge Seaboard Coast line during the late 1970s, Conrail was being rebuilt with billions of taxpayer’s dollars, and the Rock was bankrupt. The Rock needed to merge during the 1960s.
A Rock Island-MKT merger, right after WW2, is something I have thought about.
ATSF tried to merge Conrail during the early 1980s, that would have shaken things up.
Given the ICC’s thinking at the time, an RI-MKT merger during the post-WW2 period might have been allowed since both carriers were relatively weak even though it would have been a parallel merger (both roads had KC-Texas routes). Considering the major rail competition of ATSF, MP, SP/SSW and CB&Q, the resulting carrier would have wound up as the Erie Lackawanna of the Midwest.
I dont think Katy Conrail would have been a very good fit. The StL interchange would have been pretty tough. It would have been slow and expensive. Nor would the route to the lucrative petrochemical business been very efficient. The route from St. Louis to Houston - Galveston area would have been really slow. Take a look at the old Katy route.
The Conrail Cotton Belt route would have been very interesting, particularly if trackage rights would have been given on the C&EI to reach the Conrail at St. Elmo, thus avoiding the St Louis mess. That would have made a lot of sense in the scheme of things as UP really controlled the chemical business going north and east.
As part of the 4R Act, Congress offered Government guaranteed loans to any railroad that connected to ConRail. One of the few to take advantage of those loans was the Katy. They used the money to rehabilitate their mainline in 76 - 78. They also paid the loans back, in full.
If it hadn’t been for the Katy connection with ConRail in St. Louis there might have been little or no reason for the UP to buy the Katy out in 1988, not if the UP had been faced with a complete out-of-the-mud overhaul of the Katy’s mainline.
I have been told that there were talks between Santa Fe and Pennsylvania about a merger, prior to the New York Central talks. A combined ATSF/PRR would have served the five largest metropolitan areas in the US (SF, LA, Chi, DC and NYC). It would have been a great thing.
Did the IC have any chemical traffic on it - particularly to and from Gulfport and New Orleans? I know the Texas coastline is big on that stuff, but I don’t remember the IC having too much of that traffic.
The IC (and now CN) pulls chemicals out of the Geismer area, if memory serves me. Not sure how much is handled, but there used to be a GC6 train on the IC which left Geismer at 2pm and arrived Chicago 6am two days later.
Today on the CN the 398 (Memphis - Toronto) is a very heavy train. I have seen it many times with 120 - 150 cars, with a large percentage of those cars tank cars with commodities I cannot pronounce. Many covered hoppers also.
I was thinking about ballancing strengths and weaknesses.
I believe the strength of the post-war CRI&P would be the grain gathering network north of Kansas City. A weakness would have been their roundabout route between KC and Dallas (621 miles) and the shared route down to Galveston. Another weakness would have been RI’s Texas network. I would guess the trains heading north from Fort Worth must have been mostly empties.
The Katy had the best route between KC and Dallas, only 516 miles long. MKT also had a fair Texas network, which could have ballanced the traffic.
Is the ex Rock Island route from Kansas City to Texas used much? Actually, it diverges at Herington, Ks and heads to Ft. Worth. It sure looks as if they did a great job of missing Oklahoma City.
If anyone knows apprx number of UP trains on both the ex Rock Island line to Dallas and the MKT, I would appreciate it.
Ed: Unsure of the total number of trains Southbound between KC and Dallas, but here in Parsons there always seems to be at least two unit trains, between crews, as well as general freight trains; as well as the loaded auto rack trains, at least, a couple of BNSF trackage right trains through here a week. I don’t have a scanner, so not mucj info on total trains or their origins/ destinations; maybe, some of the forum members who are UP employees can fill in the train number blanks. Not sure of the dates when they were pulled up, but the MKT line northeast to Ft. Scott,Ks and Sedalia, Mo., and on to St. Louis was pullled up in the late 1970’s, early 1980’s, I have read tales that the track was so bad when it was taken up; that standing freight trains would get derailed by the action of the wind, with the rocking of the cars, they would spread the rails, and down on the ties the wheels would be. The line from Parsons, through Tulsa, to Oklahoma City was taken out about the same time frame, I think. MKT would most likely connected at OKC with the Rock Island, and also, on the KC-Dallas line in Southeastern Oklahoma. A Conrail Connection at East St Louis, and an MKT link, run to OKC would have really allowed a western penetration that could have been advantageous to all involved. Interestingly, all the KATY’s ballast was originated at the quarry close to Stringtown, Ok and at a quarry at South Mound, Ks. (on the Parsons- Sedalia line), I have been told the rock quality at these two locations was some of the hardest to be had in this area). The Stringtwon quarry still provides balla
