Consolidations, 2-8-0, locomotives were the primary general purpose freight hauler in their day. Were there ever occassions when Consols would be placed in regular passenger service? Or a time when a combine or a couple of coaches would regularly be cut into a local freight headed by a Consol? Express service?
Any real-life examples would be helpful.
Ignatius
I think that you will find multiple examples of 2-8-0s being used in passenger or mixed train service. My first pass through the library went to R. E. Prince’s Southern Railway System: Premier Carrier of the South, and page 143 shows “Mobile Division Mixed Train #18 [scheduled] from Akron nearing Selma, Ala in 1938 with H-4 No. 398 2-8-0.” My sense is that Consolidations would have drawn this service more frequently on short lines, branch lines, and areas where grades required sturdy tractive effort, but the photo cited above is from a relatively flat part of the country.
This particular photo shows the combination car and coach tucked in right behind the locomotive, with the freight cars following. This suggests to me that the passenger equipment is using steam heat. The more common arrangement on mixed trains is for the combination and/or coach to be at the end of the train, also serving as a caboose… using either the stoves in the passenger cars in cold weather.
In the narrow gauge world, Consolidations were frequently used in passenger or mixed train service, with examples from the D&RGW to the Lawndale in North Carolina.
Bill
Duluth Winnepeg and Pacific’s pasenger train from Ft.Francis Ontario / International Falls MN down to Duluth MN / Superior WI was usually about five cars which could include an express boxcar, an RPO and/or a baggage car, a coach or two, and (three times a week) a sleeper. It sometimes used a 2-8-0 as power instead of the more usual 4-6-2. Because of the relatively short haul (and some steep semi-mountainous terrain) speed wasn’t too much of an issue I’d assume. The Iconografix book “Trains of the Twin Ports” has a pic of a 2-8-0 on the train c. 1950, just happens I was looking at it again last night!!
Hi,
One thing I have learned about railroading is that you can never say “never” or “always”. I have certainly heard/seen pictures of consolidations hauling passengers (no specifics come to mind however), and I suspect that most any other loco you can imagine has done the same at one time or another.
Ha, I guess you could say that the prototype is not always prototypical!
Mobilman44
The Reading used to haul many of the Boy Scouts to thier jamboree when it was held at Valley Forge. Often the trains were hauled by whatever locomotive was available. I saw some home movies at a train club meeting in Philly 40+ years ago that showed a number of these trains being hauled by I-8sa consolidations. I expect that in earlier years camelback consolidations were used.
Also there is some Hollywood movie that includes a very short clip of a troop train being hauled by a Reading I-8sa.
For clarification, the I-8sa is a camelback consolidation. It was the last camelback consolidation class on the Reading. The subsequent I-9 and I-10 class engines were end cab engines.
Mixed trains, especially on branchlines, often had 2-8-0’s as power. The problem with a consolidation is that on many roads they were limited to 25-45 mph. So on a high speed main they were physically unable to maintain a passenger schedule. On branchlines where the speed was less, maybe 25 for freight and 45 for passenger, their low speed wasn’t an issue.
Dave H.
There were more than a few short lines where 2-8-0s did EVERYTHING! Biggest reason is that the only locomotives on the property were Consolidations.
The ex-Deadwood Central (CB&Q 3-footer in the Black Hills) ran the last twenty years of its life with two 2-8-0s for motive power, everything else having been scrapped by 1910.
More recently, the Grand Canyon Railway powered its tourist train with ex-LS&I 2-8-0s assisted by diesels.
I’m sure that others can provide plenty of additional examples.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with JNR 9600-class 2-8-0s)
On the TStL&W (Clover Leaf; Toledo to St Louis) they inaugurated a passenger train in the 1890s called “The Commercial Traveller”. It was originally pulled by Atlantics, but the train became so popular that the road had to use 2-8-0s to pull the heavy trains. By the 1920s, the train had been downgraded to a mixed local, and was still pulled by a 2-8-0. When the NKP absorbed the TStL&W in 1924 the 2-8-0s were left on the run, sometimes supplemented by smaller 4-6-0s. When the train made its last run in 1939 it was behind a 2-8-0.
The Illinois Central ran many mixed trains through central Illinois, well through the 1930s. When the IC petitioned the ICC to finally drop all of their passenger trains along secondary main lines (which are different than “branches”) in the late 1930s, the ICC allowed them to do so, so long as they accomodated occasional passengers along the line. The IC built a small series of ten or twelve “baggage cabooses” which were attached to the head end of the local freights. While the main purpose of these cars was to handle the then still lucrative LCL business along the branches, they did follow the letter of the law by having coach seating for eight passengers. These locals were usually pulled by 2-8-0s.
So it’s not only shortlines and branches that used 2-8-0s for passenger power.
I found a couple more photos of 2-8-0’s in passenger service in Richard Prince’s Nashville, Chattanooga & St.Louis Railway. Page 104 shows Consolidation “H7C No. 401 with Vanderbilt tender shown in passenger service at Paris, TN in 1951.” That photo doesn’t show the consist of the train.
On page 170, there is a photo of another H7C class 2-8-0 leaving Paris, TN on train 106 from Paducah in January 1951. There is a RPO/Baggage and at least one (probably two) coach(s). The other photo on that page shows “Cowan-Tracy City Branch Passenger Train standing at Haynes Crossing about two miles from Tracy City in 1921 with H7 No. 413 2-8-0 and three cars.” This again appears to be a RPO/Baggage and two coaches.
Bill
WOW. Thanks guys.
I always thought that Consols were the all-around loco. I just wanted evidence. All the “expert” sources list 2-8-0s as freight and switch only. Just doesn’t seem right.
Keep the examples coming. I’ve got some great ideas so far.
Best,
Ignatius
Well that’s not necessarily wrong, I don’t think any US railroad built a 2-8-0 specifically for passenger service. They could be used as passenger engines, either on a branchline run or pinch-hitting for regular passenger engines. But they were really freight engines first and foremost.
I knew that. I guess that is what happens when you answer when you are half asleep after coming off a night shift. What I meant instead of I-8 was I-10.
Here’s another example from another major railroad: From Staufer’s C & O Power book.
Page 38, C&O #893, Class G-7 in mixed train service in May, 1951; Page 48, Chesapeake & Ohio #569, class G-7 in 1931 in passenger service; Page 56, C&O G-7 No. 876 in passenger service near Glen Jean, WV in July of 1948. G-7s were built by various manufacturors between 1903 and 1916, and weighed in at 184,400 lbs.
Bill
Good Morning: Beach Bill beat me to the punch with his note about the 2-8-0 on the C&O. That is one of my all-time favorite C&O picutres.
They also used 2-8-0s in passenger service on other brach lines as well. Within the past three months or so, the C&O Historical Magazine had a feature on 2-8-0s which included a lot of pictures of them in various passenger applications.
Hope this helps.
Work safe
Hey Coalminer! One interesting aspect of the C&O usage of 2-8-0s in passenger service is that the C&O, unlike many other railroads, had a LOT of different wheel arrangements in their stable. Its almost like they had one of everything. With multiple photos surviving of different Consolidations serving in C&O passenger service, it doesn’t appear that this was an uncommon event for when the Pacific or Atlantic type “passenger” locomotive was out of service.
And here’s another: Charleston & Western Carolina Railway Consolidation #279 in mixed train service in Greewood (SC) in March 1948. This is a 1907 locomotive with 56" drivers. Albert Langley, Jr.'s book on the C&WC shows this photo on page 27, and then page 62 shows the same locomotive with a mixed train at Laurens, SC in 1941.
Bill
The Western Maryland’s H-8’s were used in mixed branch service out of Elkins WVA unitl the end of passenger service in the 1950’s.
Poppyl
2-8-0’s could occasionally be seen hauling the Western Pacific “Feather River Express” between Oakland and Portola, CA in the 'thirties and 'forties.
Also, Rio Grande occasionally used their 1100 series 2-8-0’s in local passenger service on some of their Colorado Lines. And in Utah, until the Soldier Summit grade was rebuilt from 4% to 2%, 2-8-0’s were used in tandem with 2-6-6-2’s to get their crack passenger trains over the hill.
Tom
You are right TOM, I have a black and white picture showing a WP consolidation hauling 3 or 4 coaches, I don’t know where it was taken…
Chris
I’m only aware of a few instances where consols hauled passengers, on the SP consols were used for some limited passenger runs; especially during the last days of steam.
In most cases, consols were used in steam excursions. But, one instance where consols were used on the SP to haul passengers was the Sun-Tan Special between Watsonville Junction and Santa Cruz.
The other example of a consol hauling passengers was on the V&T during the late 1940’s until the demise of the V&T on May 31, 1950. Sure the passenger trains were mixed but at least they hauled passengers.