I agree and I am always trying new things that come along, and sometimes they are not for me and sometimes I go wow! Until you give them a try you just can’t tell by looking at them. Guitar strings and my new hybrid Toyota come to mind.
That would be more than enough reason to go with a subroadbed that easily facilitates the use of these things, I would likely do the same. I have not made that investment yet and Rapidos switch machines I like for two reasons, one, the switch stands, two they are installed topside which means fit as I am, there is no crawling around under the layout.
Hybrid is the keyword and right there you are admitting you are open to change. Where I have spline on my layout it is a 70’ single track run with no turnouts. If I was to have more than one track with or without turnouts I would have started reassessing what to use. I think one sheet of masonite was $8.00 when I built my spline and I got just about the whole 70’ of roadbed out of that, What is the cost of 70" of roadbed done with ply? For you and I, the difference doesn’t really matter but to some it does.
You are a high-caliber craftsman with a lot of tools, so as Crandell suggested, someti
Thanks for explaining. Maybe spline to me would be teaching an old dog new tricks. Also, I too wonder how you can control the radius - you can’t really draw a precise radius with a trammel for example. As for smooth flowing, I believe I can get smooth flowing with conventional methods too and have. To me at best, it seems 50/50 spline vs. conventional. It seems “exotic” and perhaps something cool builders do but maybe I’m turning into a curmugeon!
I don’t believe in a stamped-out set radius for the whole curve, a lot of my curves have a changing radius as that is what you see in the wild as the track follows the landscape. As long as the minimums are met the visuals look much better with a flowing curve that opens up as it goes around.
Of course, this really depends on how much real estate one has to play with.
I would use 1/4" masonite, seven splines are what I used, you add another if desired.
Once you have a single spline done overlapping three or four feet you will be able to adjust the curve to your template. The minute you add the second layer of spline it ain’t adjusting. It is easier to do than it sounds.
With seven 1/4" splines the track fit perfectly, in this pic I drew a line on the centre spline just so I knew which one was the centre while I was attaching the others.
So I watched a couple Youtube videos about spline roadbed… Disclaimer - I can hardly ever make it thru a model railroad how to video…
Not everybody was using Masonite…
I would still like to hear from anyone how they fiquire out where to put the risers in advance andhow you attach the first (on any) piece of the spline to the riser?
As far as figuring out where to put the risers I just marked the top of the grid and put the risers along the way. I did lay my big cardboard curve (radius checker) cutouts on the grid to double-check I had the curves right and as I was setting the first spline I also checked again. As the risers were not all the same distance apart the height of each riser had to be calculated individually. If you were to lay the spline right on the grid there would be no riser as it would be attached right to the grid.
In this photo, you can see a nail, this is where the center spline goes. I used a spring clamp to hold the single spline to the nail. Once the placement was good I laminated the second spline (staggered overlap) and once that was done it was not moving. So once you have three splines on one side of the nail, you pull the nail and add the center spline where the nail was, and then the other three for seven 1/4" splines. The two outside ones were tapered. I could lift the splines up and put a dab of glue on the top of the riser and then drilled a hole and put a drywall screw countersunk through the spline down into the riser. I also drilled holes every foot alternating sides and put drywall screws in there as well. It all went very quickly.
I tapered the outside splines with the saw, however, some people do it with a rasp, I have not tried that.
Sheldon, for the cost of a sheet of masonite, you could give it a try and chuck it if it is not up to snuff. You have a lot of ground to cover with your new layout. Using spline for just some of it could save you some serious $.
Brent, trust me, I have not rulled it out by any means.
Another concern/question is the fact most of the mainline trackage on the layout is double track, requiring a 4-5 inch wide subroadbed?
That’s a lot of 1/4" thick pieces of anything…
One guy on Youtube was using strips of wood that milled on a table saw, they appeared to be more that 1/4" thick. Not sure how sharp of a radius he was building, is sample shots were very gentle curves.
I have a stretch of double track and I used 2 x 7 strips with blocks between and I put a strip flat on the blocks between the two for the ground cover.
I watched and read a lot about it before I took the plunge and went with the masonite, however with your expertise in materials you may find a better choice.
I ‘draw’ my layout’s tracks by using masking tape applied to the rug or the flooring. Contrary to riogrande’s assertion, you CAN make a precise curve using a trammel. All you need is a fixed anchor/pivot point, something like a heavy piece of wood, a slab of rock or drywall, anything that has a small hole in it into which you insert the pivot point (a screw typically).
I use the tape and a plumb bob to place the risers. As Wayne and I have described many times, you clamp the risers, or screw them if you must, and then adjust them when you’re getting close to fixing your grade and curve. The glue must not have set, and you must be able to let the splines adjust a bit, even sliding against each other a bit, as you tilt the risers to fashion super, as an example. Once you eyeball the set of the splines, their curvature and gauge loading clearances, and their rise and fall on grades, you can finalize the risers by screwing them into place. That’s how Wayne does it, if I understand him, and it’s how I did it…the fixing part, tilting the risers to allow super-elevation.
If you’re more concerned with spacing and placement, and not tilting them, just use your engineering spidey sense about how often you’ll want a riser to hold the splines, or if you’ll need one at the apex of a curve (because you need to drive a screw into the top of the riser and use the screw as a fulcrum around which you bend the splines into the curve radius you want.). Just as you pretty much guess, intuitively, how often and where to place risers for cookie-cutter end abutments so that they stay and meet at grade across the joints, you do the same for the spline risers. Where you need a riser, you measure, cut, and affix a joist, even at odd angles. It’s the way I did it, and it worked really well.
I think my risers were spaced on average about 3’ apart. Mostly that was for curves, not for support. Them things are plent
Here is an early photo of my splines. It seems my riser spacing wasn’t as far between as I recalled. It’s more like 2’, probably due to my desire to fashion curves.
Note the double track spline at left, inside, in the distance, with the wood spacer between the splines. That was the siding, the only place where I built twinned and parallel splines for any distance.
I screwed mine together from the top early on in the construction process. But, then I found it difficult to find the screws once the track had been laid or scenicked. After that, I drilled and screwed from the bottom. It’s a lot easier if/when you need/want to make changes.
I used 1/4 for my backdrop and I think the curve in the corner was 10" radius when I measured it once. Correction, I just went back and measured it, the radius in the corners is 12".
I was really surprised at how far it bent for the backdrop. It was 2’ wide I would think a 1" spline would be even easier. I have a bunch leftovers, I will experiment later by bending one 360 degrees.
Where did I assert you cannot make a precise curve with spline using a trammel. I reread my post to be sure and no, I didn’t make that assertion. Rather, I wondered how you could do it.
Anyway, I don’t have any ambitions to join the spline club and can get equally good results without.
This introduces an interesting question, what are the advantages of spline subroadbed?
It looks like it is substantially thicker, which makes mounting switch machines difficult. It takes more time to cut/build/glue/clamp. It is all hidden under scenery in the end, so all it really needs to do is support the roadbed & track, which marine grade 3/4" plywood already does perfectly.
Glad I could help Greg. I have also glued a small 3" x 3" piece of ply to the side of the spline in one spot and that is still solid years later.
When you add a length of spline to another just glue 2’ overlap making sure the splines are perfectly lined up, once you get the first couple of feet lined up and glued the rest of the piece will line up perfectly with no effort.
maybe more like benchwork than road bed (e.g. homasote, cork)
unlike others, i’m not planning on building an entire layout using splines, i’m hoping it’s a good solution to building a loop at the end of a pennisula
as others have said, a laminated spline is stiff and strong. i’d compare it to a bridge that doesn’t require much support.
i think it would be less expensive that cutting narrow circular pieces from a sheet of plywood which would require additional pieces to join the individual pieces together.
obviously, overlapping laminated pieces can be arbitrarily long and makes it easier to build a varying radius (e.g. french curve)
it also appears shape errors can be corrected by simply laminating additional strips
considering the price of sheet of masonite (~$15), it appears to be an economic use of materials that can meet specific needs
Why, can you not mount the switch machine to the underside of the spline?
I have done both and disagree.
3/4" marine grade plywood sounds really expensive at $105.00 a sheet. You can get a good 48’ of spline roadbed out of a sheet of 1/4" hardboard for $25.00, there is very little waste. With spline you don’t need cork or foam roadbed, more $$ saved.
I am not sure what the average amount of roadbed one can get out of a sheet of ply is whatever the thickness and I have never stopped to think about it when I was throwing all the scraps in the garbage. Any guesses anyone?
I don’t think I have ever used 3/4" for subroadbed. I would like to know what others do and have used. Sheldon probably has the most to offer with his knowledge of carpentry of how thick the sub roadbed should be from an engineering standpoint. Trains can sure be heavy.[(-D]
