I realize that model railroading is an esoteric hobby. I realize there are a few of us out there and that together we make up a small (very small mob). So I eagerly scan the Net and read my (unasked for) catalogs… and occasionally order.
In one case, I ordered a simple series of passenger cars, HO scale. This was in January. My credit card was billed, the confirmation came, and I awaited the coming of the postman.
Upon my biweekly scanning of my Email, I get a apologetic Email saying that my order is on “backorder”, They expect to deliver my cars in about a month.
Hey, these things happen.
In April, I call the company I ordered with, who shall remain nameless. After ten minutes on hold being told how important my business is, I give up.
It’s May. My faith in humanity has not faltered one whit. I order (from a different company) some software for my Train Simulator game. The very next night, I get an Email… the order is (guess again, you silly optimistic children)…backordered.
I called the first company, actually got a human being who says that I have been extraordinarily patient since I have been waiting since January (good thing he is several states away, because I’m cleaning my service weapon) and he earnestly hopes that my package will come sometime this month.
Is this a pattern for others? Or do I just figure the post office has given up on the second biggest city in Georgia?
I would love to hear any suggestions that y’all could make.
I think it is against the law for them to charge your card for the purchase until the item has shipped. They can put a hold on that amount but I don’t believe it is legal to complete the transaction. You may want to check with the credit card company and maybe the better business bureau.
I have never had that problem with items I have ordered on-line or through a catalog. I will typically check to make sure that it is in stock before I order.
If nothing else, you can contact your credit card company and file a disputed transaction wherein they will withdraw the payment that has been made for the items you haven’t received.
If you ordered from a reputable company, they should not have charged your card until the item(s) have been shipped. I’m not sure if there is any law against them doing so, but most honest businesses don’t.
As far as the items being on backorder, it has been my experience that some companies don’t seem to even begin production until they see how much demand is generated after they announce a new product.
There are a couple of mail order businesses that I don’t patronize any more because the last few times I placed an order they waited nearly 2 months before sending me a note that the items were not in stock. Fortunately, they had not charged my credit card, but they still should have told me the items were not in stock when I phoned in the order.
Don’t feel bad, erik. Even ordering DCC stuff from a national company gets you the same email…“Item on backorder. Will ship as soon as possible.” You either cancel theorder, or you wait. Our club waited 4 1/2 months for new throttles to be delivered.
I’m not certain if the credit card was dinged ahead of time, but lots of backorders are happening all the time. What cacole suggests is a good idea…especially if you STILL have not received the item.
You are correct, knewsom. I ran a mail order business (car accesories) for a few years and had a clerk charge a card but the order was not shipped for a few weeks - backordered (I cringe). I got a really nasty message from the card processing center saying that if I did that again, I would lose my account. OUCH!
On a related topic - I just yesterday ordered some things from Walthers. I looked for a “special shipping instructions” block on the order/ shipping pages, and found nothing. So immediately after placing the order, I e-maile Walthers asking them to hold the order and not ship until next Friday - I’ll be out of town all next week. Their reply - “we are unable to do that. All we can do is cancel the order. Let us know.”
Of course, I read that e-mail this morning, and there was also an e-mail that the order had been completed. I e-mailed back canceling the order, but it probably is already shipped. As far as I’m concerned, THEY are responsible if the package disappears off my porch while I’m gone - I asked them to hold the shipment.
I’ve had a few ones like that, but nothing for that length of time. One retailer over here ( www.ehattons.com ) has a very commendable policy that they will not advertise on their website items that they do not have in the warehouse - what you see is what they have. The other retailer I deal with is rather more annoying - they make it clear that they order most of the items from the UK importers (fair enough - delivery times are usually good), but what they don’t tell you is the importers may well be out of stock of an item - have had to cancel or amend two orders in the last 6 months because of this!
It is not unusual to get model railroad items back-ordered. Many manufacturers advertise their wares long before they are released. Distributors/Dealers cannot ship what they do not have from the manufacturer. It happens a lot.
Retailers should not charge a credit card for items that have not shipped.
When ordering by mail on the Internet or over the phone, ask if the item is in stock before placing the order. In the past (last 15 years) I have ordered from Trainworld and they have always let me know if the item is in stock or if it will end up on back-order.
Sometimes saving a few dollars is not worth the hassle. Buy from the dealer that has the item in stock. “A bird in hand…”
First thing- make sure the item has even been made before you try to order unless you are preordering from a firm you know and trust. People all the time try to order something that has never been made and complain. One good reason to check Walthers inventory as it is rarely wrong. There are companies like some of the resin casters who don’t actually make the stuff until you order - know how the business operates before you get into it.
Actually I don’t believe it is against the law to charge your card if they tell you up front as I know for a fact this has been done in order to finance some projects. I believe they due have to specify a delivery date and if they don’t meet it you have the right to cancel.
I discovered the other day that some of the e-tailers that frequent e-bay don’t even have the items they are auctioning. Theywait until they have a winner and then get the item ordered in. So far I have always recieved the items I won, except for one BLI loco. The seller had to eventually admit that they did not have the loco, could not get the loco and so we cancelled the deal. Anyway, just something else to be aware of, backorders on e-bay!!
I put in one order and never heard anything - no shipment, no charge on the credit card, one email when I ordered (the standard thank you generated by computer), but no more. By the time I realized that the order was who knows where I found it cheaper at a show. In fairness I have done other ordering on the Internet and by phone with no problems.
But it is easy to see why so many folks like to buy it in person. I do most of my buying at train shows and only order on the net or phone if I have no other way to get the item.
I live in an area that has NO decent hobby shop closer than 2 and 1/2 hrs. away (5 hours. round trip). If it were not for the internet I would not be able to be in the hobby in any realistic way. I have been using the internet to order not only hobby material but also most everything else. I believe that I have had fewer problems ordering things this way than any other. The only drawback is not being able to actually put your hands on the item. This does not mean that you can’t have problems, but I have yet to have one that was not readily rectified, with a little patience. I have the whole world as my hobby shop. It don’t get no better than that, brother.
You shoulc never be charged for an order is it is on backorder. Demand your money be refunded and let us know the name of the internet company so we can all avoid it. I normally talk to someone and give the CC number verbally to avoid having the information going over the web.
I shop almost exclusively on the Internet. We have a couple of OK hobby shops but they charge retail plust 10-20%. I only buy there if I’m in a hurry and it’s a small item that I need. Note that i said “shop”. When it’s time to order, I call the toll free number and get a name of the sales person so if there’s a problem, I know who to call back. This is also a good time to check the availability of an item. So far, I’ve received what I ordered, and havn’t had to wait more than 3-4 days to get it. That’s hard to beat.
I avoid ebay like the plague. I’ve been identity scammed there twice, and for the most part, it’s turned into a flea market for junk dealers. I would only by from an individual face-to-face.
I feel that within the last 6 years or so there was a “sea change” in the hobby. Instead of making everything availible all the time, they want us to order the items actually; reserve, then preorder then order and then wait.
I do my special order thru the LHS. That way I get immediate word on availibilty. If it is out of production then I turn to trainshows or ebay.
My recent purchase of the LL QSI 2-8-8-2 was very long in coming. I heard about this product sometime in late 2003. Followed up on the preorder for a copy of this engine in spring of 2004 knowing that release is sometime in December of 2004.
It would be this month in 2005 before I recieved the copy of my engine. It came with a serial number of 50. (Serial numbers have no value to me) so after 2 years wait I have the engine in hand. YAY!
After the length of time waiting for this engine, I doubt I will be investing in any more advance orders. If I see an item on the shelf ready to be purchased or availible NOW then I will order it.
No more waiting for me.
If many people felt like I do and no one preorders to the factory then they think that there might be no demand for a model. What then do they do?
Bachmann, as just one example, has actually cancelled production of items after announcing them and receiving what they considered to be insufficient interest in the product through advance orders.
It all depends on the seller - if you order from a good one, you won’t have problems.
I have ordered from Modeltrainstuff (M.B. Klein) and Tony’s Train Exchange - a DCC system, a dozen locos, and several rolling stocks worth - all with no problem at all.
And all at major savings compaired with my LHS (even with the LHS discount and the internet shipping fees).
Order from some others, and … well, let the buyer beware !!!
There are many threads on all the major MRR forums discussing and cussing those dealers that MRRers have had problems with. It boggles my mind why some continue to use them !!!
I think you will find that, unless your LHS is VERY well stocked, that method won’t work.
My LHS is only ordering enough high value locos (such as LL’s Heritage steamers or Atlas/P2K/BLI sound diesels/steamers) to cover pre-orders. They can’t afford to have such costly items just sitting on the shelf.
Even the internet stores may sell out of a particular desired loco very fast.
If more folk don’t pre-order, less will be made, and even fewer will be available - better plan on paying a LOT on e-Bay for such items !!!
Both of my LHS’s do a good job on regular stock. There is a little bit of high end stuff on the shelf. I rely on them to provide me with information via email or a regular visit what is availible and what is not availible at the distributor.
I wanted to clarify my “no waiting” meaning that most of all the engines in steam has been purchased for the rest of the year. There is more steam coming out for preorders that I like but will make do with what I already have on hand.
MB Klein and others are on my list. Also Walthers keeps a list of shops they send items to in the past. It is a matter of a day’s wait after writing all to see which ones still have a sought after item.
And then there is always ebay.
Problems on internet orders is the following:
Slow or lost payment
Mis communication
failure to pr