Convert Shinohara DCC Turnouts to DC

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

Hi, I have been using a mixture of Shinohara DCC & DC code 83 Turnouts on my layout and I have been having a few problems with Short-circuiuts, in that I keep thinking - why is this happening? I have never had any problems with my previous (British) layouts using Peco SL100, with Electrofrog T/O’s.

I have no intention of ever using DCC and so I know very little about it.

When I realized that the Point Blades of a DCC T/O do not act like a ‘Switch’ to isolate the main and diverging routes - I thought, uh-oh!

The Shinohara DCC T/O’s have 4 No. Jumper-bars under the Ties. I wondered if I cut these, would I create a Peco-style Frog or would it isolate the Frog completely and totally disable the T/O from working at all?

Or should I just cut the Jumpers before the Frog, or the ones after it? I am not familiar with how the Frogs are internally wired. I am trying to avoid wiring-in extra Isolating-switches, at all places.

This may seem bizarre when Modellers go to such great efforts to convert DC to DCC, but Shinohara track is worthless on the UK secondhand market and I have no extra money to throw at it.

If anyone could offer advice (except that written below) it would be appreciated.

I should have stuck what I was familiar with and used Peco Track & T/O’s. This Shinohara has been an unexpected and big disapointment to me. Thanks, Paul

2

The problem with the Shinohara turnouts is that both point blades are connected together electrically. That means the narrow gap between the stock raila nd the open point are opposite polarity and that just invites a short. Fixing them to be completely bulletproof is not exactly simple. The Wiring for DCC site shows what needs to be done.

wiringfordcc.com/switches_walthers_old.htm

–Randy

3

You have the newer “All-live” Shinohara if it has four metal strips spot welded on the bottom. Cutting those strips will leave the diverging (frog) rails and (closure) point rails dead.

The old Power-routing Shinohara is the earlier version which has the frog all one piece, formed out of soldered rail, and continuous with the point rails and diverging rails.

Throwing the points will not change the polarity of the diverging routes.

The all-live Walthers/Shinohara code 83 turnout does have an isolated frog.

Older Power-Routing on top and newer “DCC Friendly” All-Live on bottom.

IMG_8650 by Edmund, on Flickr

The old Alan Gartner site has good information but can be overwhelming at times.

Look at this description and scroll down to “Power Routing and Non Power-Routing” note the jumpers , like yours, in the “Non-power routing” Turnout.

https://dccwiki.com/Turnout

Good Luck, Ed

4

DO NOT modify any of the turnouts, and both will work just fine with DC layouts.

The shorts come from frog-to-frog connections with turnouts. Without going into an incredibly long explanation, if you install gaps or insulators at the frog end of all the turnouts you will not have problems.

You also will not have power-routing, but that will get into long explanations.

I read through the link Ed provided… lots of good information there. In that document the old style Shinohara turnouts are what is called non-isolated power routing. The new style (DCC friendly) Shinohara turnouts are what is called non-power routing.

-Kevin

5

Those old ones can and do short on DC using Tortoises to power the frog if it’s not perfectly aligned. In fact, it was these turnouts mostly that inspired the “how to modify the Tortoise contacts” web sites.

–Randy

6

Hi Guys, Thank you for your help and advice. I had good read of both websites, which explain everything. I finally got my Layout operational, this a.m.

I usually fit Insulated Rail-joiners at the Frog-ends and control the T/O with a Centre-off DPDT Switch, with the centre poles feeding at the Point-end, so I had solved some of the problem-places, as Kevin suggests, without realising it.

My model is based on Carroll Avenue, but it is a mirror-image of the real thing, with the Yard on a peninsula into the middle of the room, the Branch going off around the walls with the Main circling on the inside.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Michigan+City,+IN,+USA/@41.7135114,-86.8681033,209m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8811058540da2c03:0x852e2fee2dcd02c8!8m2!3d41.7075394!4d-86.8950297

CSS use the Branch to Kingsbury as a Lead-line for the Yard. My Main, East to West is a simple circuit, but can also divert down the Branch via the Wye. I am able to run Trains into the Yard from the Kingsbury branch, from the Loco-tracks and via the T/O off the Platform-end.

I have had to really cram-in the T/O’s leading into the Yard from the Diamond. Using the DPDT’s and setting the Switches by hand, it is a question of remembering the sequences, but after a few hours of operation, I started to get use to it.

I can operate 3 trains at once, one circling the Main, one switching back & forth across the Diamond and one switching from the Loco-tracks. This gives me the potential for a 3 Train crash! I’m sure Gomez would be proud of me - but I certainly would not.

As soon as I get my model (and wiring) tidied-up, I will post some photos. Thanks again, Paul

7

I agree — and have first-hand experience with these as my entire layout was made using the pre “DCC Friendly” variety in 1995.

When the OP stated that his turnouts did not “route power” throgh the points this was a clue that they are the newer “all-live” variety.

Clue no. 2, the older power-routing style do not have jumper strips hidden under the ties.

Therefore by cutting the four jumpers and NOT adding additional feeder wires he would be leaving four segments of rail, including the frog which is isolated anyway, entirely dead, electrically.

Cheers, Ed

8

I do too - the club I used to belong to used a lot of the pre-DCC Friendly versions (considering there WAS no DCC at the time…) all over the place, and we had to adjust a bunch of Tortoises to tune them just right.

–Randy