I have read many articles regarding the different scales, and isn´t it supposed to be 0 (zero)-scale rather than O(oh)-scale? And that H0 is Half-zero scale? The british have their 00-scale (wich by the way isn´t half the 0-scale). I know that written and spoken language differs a lot and I think it is correct to SAY O- and HO scale and write 0 and H0.
By the way, when you say the time in military format you say; Oh four hundred when you mean 04:00, but you wouldn´t write O4:00, would you?
Many of the other scales are designated by numbers as well: 1, 2 and the one that didn´t came up 000 (N).
The system of letters is more of a Mfg designation: TT (_Tillig), G (LG_B).
I just wonder if this is a difference between US and Europe?
Common usage in the US is Oh -scale,Aitch Oh scale ,and double Oh. Treble Oh went out years ago when somebody decided it should be called N-scale. The letters plus a number indicate narrow gauge with the numbers being the gauge in inches or feet. Aitch-Oh N 3 indicates HO scale with a gauge of three feet… Hope thats some help. Gotta feeling you’re gonna get some mail on this one. BILL
When Marklin decided to enter the market of smaller than N scale trains, they chose Z scale, thinking that this will be the smallest scale ever. Could they know that Eishindo came up with somethin train-like, half the size of Z scale?
In the USA, we have the National Model Railroad Association (www.nmra.org) that has Standards for the hobby in this country. In their Standard S-1.2 (http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/S-1_2StandardScale.html), they show all the scales as recognized by the NMRA. Note that every time the Alpha Numeric designation is given for 1/48, 1/76.2, and 1/87.1 scales, the letter “O” is used.
Since the NMRA’s Standard calls for the letter “O” to be used in reference to O-scale, OO-scale, and HO-scale, that’s good enough for me.
Historically, yes, the origin in the use of scales referred only to numbers. The smallest scale possible at the beginning of our hobby was called “No. 1” because that was the smallest scale that electrical motors could fit into at that time. No. 2 and No. 3 scales were also in use, and were larger than No. 1 scale. Soon, electrical motors became smaller, and to represent smaller than No. 1, the number “0” was used and became O-Scale. When even smaller motors became possible, 00 scale came into being, which became OO-scale. Yet more smaller motors led to H0 (for “Half 0”, even tho’ it isn’t really half O, but it is closer to being half O than OO). And so on.
This conversion of “0” to “O” is not unique to our hobby. Go buy a small paint brush, and you will find that some are labled with "O"s instead of "0"s. Or look at wire gauges. The AWG can run into multiple “O” gauges. As long as people understand it, does it really matter?
Thank you for the clarification. And I believe that the correct name for G-scale is IIm (2m, II-scale narrow gauge on 1-scale track).
And to clarify my original post: I don´t question the use of the different designations but that you say and write it differently. ( I know that written and spoken language differs a lot and I think it is correct to SAY O- and HO scale and write 0 and H0.)
In speaking terms, one should say zero four hundred for 0400, and not O four hundred when calling out time using the 24 hour clock. This was drilled into me when I was in the military. There is absolutely zero room for error when dealing with certain things. When folks use an O in the place of zero, they are mistaken.
BTW: One would not use a colon either when writing/typing out the time using the 24 hour clock.
Graffen, you are absolutely right on what it should be. As I understand it this is what happened: scales had all been numeric–2; 1; 0-- but somewhere or another–most likely because of a misprint–someone began referring to Zero-Scale as Oh-Scale and it got perpetuated. Aitch-oh-Scale should be Half-zero-Scale–Aitch-zero-Scale–but by the time it first made its appearance in the '20s(?) Zero-Scale had assumed the designation as Oh-Scale and that Half-zero-Scale naturally became Half-oh-Scale abbreviated to Aitch-oh-Scale.
Certain adjustments have always been made in specifications for a new scale i.e. with a 1:160 ratio for N-Scale the proper track gauge–for standard gauge–should be 8.969mm. A machinist can mill that dimension but the hobbyist wants to be able to use a standard metric scale ruler and hence the track gauge was set at a functional 9mm which translates to a gauge of 56 13/16 of an inch just a hair–5/16 of an inch–too wide. PICKY**-PICKY-PICKY!**
HO most certainly is half O, since originally 0/O gauge was to the scale of 1/43.5 . The 1/48, or quarter inch scale, was an American creation that came long after the establishment of European 0/O gauge. In fact, American O still wasn’t accurate as the track spacing was not to scale as modeled. American O was originally a scale of convenience, rather than gauge accuracy and if one goes back into the “dark ages” of the hobby, you’ll find reference to the Great Debate (really a knock down drag out fight) over what American O scale should be - 1/48 or 17/64.
Incidentally, although 00 had briefly appeared in 1921, it quickly vanished, only to re-surface in the 1930’s simultaneously with HO. Thus, there was no actual continuous evolution from O, to OO, to HO resulting from motor size.
Marklin in Germany was the first to offer different gauges, numbering them 1-4 with No.1 gauge being the smallest (the size track now used by LGB and other “Big” trains) The correct scale is 1:32 scale…although nobody really cared at the time, trains were undersized to go around the sharp curves.
When they came out with an even smaller scale it was “zero” scale (or I suppose “zed” scale in the UK). There have been three “correct” scales used with 1.25" “O” gauge track: 1:43.5, 1:45, and 1:48. In Europe they often use 7mm = 1 ft for O scale, which I think is 1:43.5 but 1:45 is the correct scale(??)
1:48 mean 1/4" equals 1 foot. That was easier for US modellers at a time when almost everything had to be scratchbuilt, though it meant the track gauge worked out to an even five feet instead of 4’-8-1/2" like it should be.
HO indeed means “Half O”. Cut 1:43.55 in half and you get 1:87.1 which is precise HO scale.
My understanding is that when HO came along, the UK didn’t have any electric motors that would fit inside HO models of their smaller engines - or at least not good motors. So they raised the linear scale to 4mm per foot but used the same track.
N scale comes from Nine mm gauge track as I recall.
Just doing this from memory so might be a little off. I’m getting old. [%-)]
The previous posters have discussed the various scales and got it pretty close to right; however, there’s one point that has always bugged me: the loose usage and seeming interchangeabilty of the terms “scale” and “gauge”.
These terms are NOT interchangeable! “Scale” refers to the size of the model in relation to the prototype. “Gauge” refers to the distance between the rails.
For instance, you can have HO scale (1:87.1) models running on N gauge (9mm) track - HOn30/HOn2 1/2. The worst example of incorrect usage is probably the term “G Scale”. “G” is the designation given by Lehmann Gross-Bahn (“Lehmann Big Train”) for their trains which run on #1-gauge track. There have been a plethora of scales produced for this gauge - each of which bases the scale on what they want the #1 gauge track to represent: European meter gauge (LGB), Maine 2-foot narrow gauge, US 3-foot gauge, US “standard gauge” (56.5"), and others. All different scales, with the same gauge.
Bottom line, there is no such thing as an HO gauge model! It’s an HO Scale model!
The confusion over zero and oh, stems simply from how we Americans, (I can’t speak for the Brits), say “oh” for the number 0, rather than saying zero. Over the years, in print, 0 (zero) has evolved into O (oh) from how we speak. The correct designations are still 0, (# zero, but spoken “oh”), the same for H0 and 00. Like with a 0-6-0 steam locomotive, we say oh-six-oh, not zero-six-zero.
One problem too is that early toy manufacturers only really went by gauge, the trains they built to run on the tracks were just designed to look OK and be able to run on the tight curves of toy train sets / layouts. So for example, many Lionel O gauge steam engines and cars were approximately 1:64th scale rather than the correct 1:48 so they could take 31" or even 27" dia. curves.
Here here! As soon as someone above posted a message talking about G-scale (shudder), I was going to write this note. But, since you already did I won’t repeat it.
But happen to end up being 1:22 scale. A European narrow gauge?
Does anyone know what ever became of M-scale or M-gauge? I just remember that it stood for Magnus. Seems like it was the early 1980s.
As far as corrent names for the various sizes, I suppose we could throw away all this confusion and give them reall names like Bill, Susie, Larry, Jennifer, etc. [:-^]
Gary, oldtimers might just give you an argument there! Point of fact is that for the first twenty years of its existance, HO was referred to in MR and commonly amongst hobbyists as “HO-gauge”, just as O was called O-gauge, S was S-gauge, etc… The concept that it should be referred to instead as " HO scale" didn’t come along until during, or immediately following WWII. Even then, there are several “scales” in HO! [;)]
Yeah, I know I could (and probably will) get an argument (and I AM an “old-timer”[:D]), but you make my point when you say “referred to in MR and commonly amongst hobbyists…”. Too danged much sloppy speaking at first, and carried into today. In the early years, there was almost no modeling of narrow gauge, especially in HO - no motors then available would fit in the small boilers needed. So “HO gauge” became synonymous with “HO scale” - everything was scaled to 0.65" gauge track as representing 56.5" gauge. Today we know better, but it still goes on. (How can you have an “HO gauge” building, anyway?)
And what other scales are there in HO? Gauges, yeah, but scales? To quote a past president, “There you go again…” [(-D]
Historically, there were four. The U.S. standard was/is 1:87 , while the NMRA claims 1:87.1 . Back in the day, 1:76 in Britian was often referred to as British HO since it operated on HO gauge trackage. Today it’s considered OO, although the original American OO operated on correctly gauged track and thus was fully to one scale. There are also some continental HO manufacturers modeling at 1:90 !
The terminology didn’t get corrupted with time, rather the hobby’s participants lost sight of their toy train origins where everything was based on track gauge, rather than pure scale. In the case of HO, it eventually worked backwards so that HO track gauge became 16.5mm rather than 16mm (half of O). N-gauge has been the most pure with regard to sticking to its gauge roots with its name, although it seems to be becoming more blurred in recent years.