Ok other then the obvious having the RPO car and baggage cars up front behind the locomotive and the observation car bringing up the rear is there a correct way to position the rest of the passenger cars in the train? I am guessing sleepers towards the back just to keep as far away from the locomotive noise as possible but then I’m just guessing on that.
“Correct way” would vary from one railroad to another, as well as one era to another, but generally Baggage, express and RPO cars will be at the front, which is how they got the nickname "head end traffic. During the steam era usually the coaches would come next, followed by the diner, then the sleepers, with a lounge car or observation bringing up the rear. Again, this is VERY general.
If you plan to model a specific train, we could give more exact guidance if you’d specify which one.
I’ll take your thoughts a tad farther.
It will also depend on what type of train-all pullman,all coach,both pullman and coach or local.
Pullman’s could be behind the sleepers if they are to be switched out.The sleepers could be added enroute as well.
This could be of interest.
Don’t quite know how to put this… but…
As well as Pullman’s to be cut off and sleepers to be added on wouldn’t we also find long distance trains running in sections?
I don’t mean the split of heavy traffic into two or more trains but the situation where a train divides for different parts to go to different destinations - which also means that the opposite direction train gets ut together at the junctions that the parts meet up at…
This can mean that the train gets its head-end cars then a 1st section of coach(es), diner, sleeper(s) & lounge followed by a 2nd section of coach(es), diner, sleeper(s) & lounge/observation.
Two things I don’t know (1)do both sections head-end cars go at the front or do the head-end cars for the 2nd section get between the 1st and 2nd sections? (2) could either section be formed the other way round if it spent most of it’s journey running the other way from a junction?
I hope this makes sense!
[:P]
Tom,
To be more specific N&W passenger train later 1950’s I picked up a set of N&W Athearn Heavy weights yesterday to go behind a J class Spectrum that was a Christmas gift form my dad. I graciously accepted it of course but told my wife on the way home well that will just sit up on a shelf some where as I don’t run passenger trains only freights on my layout.
Well silly me I now have four complete PRR passenger trains including a Broadway Limited version, a complete set of NJ Transit cars with the correct U34CH locomotive painted in the correct Blue Bird paint scheme and of course a full complete UP passenger set. The last two I have just to have and know they don’t fit my layout or ear etc.
Now I’m asking you guys for the correct way to set up my N&W train. I guess I should just learn to never say never.
Oh and Dave no disrespect but I didn’t understand a word of what you wrote…lol sorry I guess my brain doesn’t function on just one cup of coffee
[(-D] Not too surprised.
What I’m waffling about is the sort of train that starts out from Chicago as maybe 16 cars heading for maybe Denver. When it gets there half go south and half go north. Clearly the other way round the north and south halves meet up back at Denver and then make a long train back to Chicago.
Each part of such a train will be made up as required for the train to just split/join at Denver.
There have been articles in both Trains and some of the model mags about both the whole trains and the switching that goes on with the passenger cars at the junction… but I’ve never seen anything about what happens to any head-end cars.
Hope that makes a bit more sense.
Very strange someone who runs freight only ending up with passenger trains. Don’t think I’d do that…[:-^]
[:P]
Pullmans are sleepers.
Any scheduled train could be run in sections.
If the train goes in two different directions then it will be two different schedules. I’m sure you could find some scenario of circumstances where a train that splits at some point would have to be run as two sections and might make sense to run each half of the split as one section. But that’s an exception. If there was enough traffic to warrant two sections on a splitter, then you just would run two schedules and not bother with the split. Having two sections that go different places is a logistical problem with the passengers since you have to make sure that a destination A passenger (and his baggage) doesn’t get on the destination B train.
I’m sure you can find at least one example of anything.
One thing I don’t know (1) what th
You could build the train in any manner of ways. In any case all the head end cars would be on the head end and the other cars towards the rear.
It all depends on how much time you have at Denver, what other cars cut in/ cut out, how many cars actually go through, etc.
Part of the confusion was that you started out asking about trains running in sections and then shifted to something that has nothing to do with sections.
In a generic “all purpose” train, the order would be something like:
RPO/BAGGAGE/ EXPRESS CARS
COACHES
DINER
PULLMAN SLEEPERS
LOUNGE/OBSERVATION CAR
The diner was often used as a divider - coach passengers could go back to the diner, but not beyond to the observation car, only the first class passengers could.
As noted in the real world, things could be very different. If a train was heavily patronized, it might run in multiple sections, having say all the coaches on one train and all the Pullmans on another. A daytime train wouldn’t have Pullman sleepers, but could have a Pullman or railroad owned parlor car for first-class passengers to ride in.
Dave, I’m sitting here reading your response laughing thinking back to those brain twister questions we had back in grammar school. If a man on a train leaves Chicago headed for NY at 50mph and another rman leaves LA on a train I hated those stupid questions…lol
Oh and i have slightly more freight cars then passenger cars last count was in the neighborhood of 800 pieces of freight rolling stock and STILL NOT ENOUGH!..lol
Yes it is a sickness called model railroading syndrome
[:(!][soapbox][V] That is not a sickness! Everyone else suffers from MRDS = Model Railroading Deficiency Syndrome.
[swg]
[8)] I did say…
[8)]
But this does raise the (to me) useful question of what to call sections/“lumps”/“bits” of trains that are destined for different places?
This suggests to me that the suggested train could have three bits - the north and south bits and a bit that only goes as far as Denver…
Might either the north or south bit pick up cars that have come from somewhere else? I think that Trains mag had an article about a shuffle something like this that occurred at a junction with a Y in the middle of no-where.
This has always seemed to me to be a fascinating piece of operation that beats passenger trains just arriving and departing.
I have also seen pics (from the dieing days of passenger service) of some “parts” of trains like this that have been maybe a couple of locos and just one or two cars…
A Bit differently I notice that when divided into sections due to heavy traffic the coach cars could run as one section while the sleepers/Pullmans/1st class run as another section… Would this be arranged so that the higher class ran as the 1st section followed by everything else? Also; what would happen about a Diner? Would the coach car passengers be left to fend for themselves?
Are all Pullmans sleepers? I thought that some
Ahem, just add to confusion, Amtrak did test a train once from a European design, that could uncouple safely, AT SPEED. Tehn the second engineer unfolded his little driving stand from a broom closet, the front half runs up past the switch, and the yardy throws it in front of the second half.
To answer your question: DO what the rest of us do, and call them set-outs. Other than the sleepers, it wasn’t common for them to whack out half a train to go one way or another. UNLESS it was a combined run, UP did that with a Portland train, it was actiually two seperate trains, Signified as TrainA-Train-B, but they left as one. I dunno how it was switched.That did as you discuss, split at point c, but that’s not the norm for “sections” The C&O’s George Washington (Train 1&2) had sections into Kentcucky (Trains 41&42) that had their own coaches and diners, and slepers. One might go on from Ashland to Cinncy, or heck, one went almost to California. But beyond the sleeper, the section trains stayed the same. This was the more common.
OP: Sorry, I have nothing on the N&W for ya.
If you were only a woman I would be in Love.
Quite a compliment. But I’m a fat, old man (that’s me on the right).
It was fairly rare to have a train that was split into two different trains, or two different trains combined into one. It did happen, but it would only happen to a small percentage of trains overall. AFAIK they were just referred to as “trains”(??) Like if the UP’s City of San Francisco and City of Los Angeles started out together in Chicago, and then split at some point in the west to go their separate ways. I suspect each “train” would have separate tickets, separate conductors, etc. in a case like that.
“Pullmans” is sometimes used as a term for “sleepers” but indeed Pullman operated other cars too - diners, parlor cars, etc…kinda like how when someone says “Kleenex” you picture a facial tissue, despite the fact that Kleenex makes other paper products too. Even the combination baggage/smoking cars on NYC’s Twentieth Century Limited were Pullman cars. But the majority of it’s cars were sleepers, and that’s what people tend to think of when you say “Pullman car”.
If you do any long-distance train travel in Europe, you will often face this situation, even on one train - no sections required. Each car will have a metal plate on it, telling you where it’s gonna go, although you will usually have a reserved seat and your reservation will tell you which car that seat is in, so you won’t really have to worry about identifying the car’s destination.
What I always loved is that there is a separate signboard up in any major train station that shows the exact makeup of each train and where each car will be, so you can get to the (approximate, at least) right part of the platform before the train ever gets there. That can be a good plan as the station stops are often astonishingly short.
Anyone, if you ever travel in Europe, take some fast long-distance trains - you’ll just love it!
- Gerhard
It was fairly common in the days of real passenger trains to set a car or a few cars out at a given station, either to be added to another train or so the passengers could sleep until morning (if the car was a sleeper) and then get off refreshed. However, splitting trains into two complete trains was just about unheard of. The closest thing to this today is the Empire Builder which splits its westbound train at Spokane WA, sending most of the train to Seattle and a few cars to Portland. However, these are not two complete trains which strated as one way back in Chicago. I believe the Portland part lacks diners and lounges. There may be a snack car. Eastbound trains from Portland and Seattle are merged at Spokane but, again, the Portland train is not a “complete” one.
I hope this helps.