Could this work today?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Prior to my founding the Great Scale Model Train Show (aka Timonium MD show) with Ken Young in 1982, I had purchased 15 acres of land in near by Montgomery County, MD for this purpose. The plan was to construct a 75,000 sq.ft. steel structure with an almost complete basement for multiple uses. This was going to be the home of the train show, and used for other events when trains show were not scheduled. One huge area of the basement was to be for a very large model railroad club. We were going to section off this area as a seperate entity with its own value (this was beyond my business and economic limits, but not my accountant’s). Then we had proposed to sell shares for the club area which could be sold, traded, or whatever at current appraised value should member decide to drop out.

The club was to have a really great track plan to be designed by John Armstrong, then the dean of model railroad design (and most likely be one of the best ever).

Construction was to broken into various phases with a captain in charge of each phase…such as bench work, electronics, track laying, scenery, structures, equipment, and power…etc

Obviouolsy the captian would be the most proficient in his area, and all work by members would have to be approved by captain and group of peers. Standards were to be extremely high like everything such as structures and rolling stock would have to be hand built, with nothing allowed in plastic or the unspeakable (then)…RTR!

Of course operating dues would have been charged, but members would have had free access to all of the shows including dealer priviledges. A hobby shop was also discussed for the basement area as this was before the great on-line and eBay purchasing invasion…train shops then were still a viable venture. Members would have been able to purchase at a great discount and of course wholesale contacts would have greatly aided in layout construction.

We dropped the plan due to problems in zoning, but mainly due to

2

My comments are only addressing your idea for the club. It sounds as if one person (or a select few) would pick the track plan, be nominated as “Captains” of the various departments, and get most of the say. In my own personal experience, this will only alienate other potential members of the club. A select few will govern the rest and while the layout (if it is every built) will indeed be spectacular, in reality only those select few will ever show up for work sessions. Thus, the layout will never move forward.

Clubs work by allowing multiple ideas to be brought in and integrated with the group. That might not be the best method, and indeed poor workmanship can and frequently will result, but at least everyone is participating. I personally would not want to join a club where the decisions are being made by a select few.

Your other ideas sound interesting and bold.

3

Howard, the club concept does not seem much different from that of “The Model Railroad Club” in NJ, started by Paul Mallory. That group has been slow to complete the rather ambitious original plan, but they are still there none the less.

That much said, I’m no longer the club joining/building type, so it would not interest to me.

The one flaw I see in your club plan is the “high standards” thing. Even back then it was a diverse hobby that attracts people of different skills and interests.

Example - I can, do, and have, built models at least close to being on a par with your work. BUT, I like plastic (styrene) as a modeling medium. I have nothing against plastic freight cars that are intended to represent steel. I do have steel cars that represent steel (I still run as lot of Athearn and Varney metal cars…).

AND, more importantly, I’m not really interested in, or able to, put that much time into every model on the layout. Nor do I think it is necessary to build everything from scratch scenery/structure wise to have an effective high quality layout.

Paint alone does wonders to any number of commercial models on the market - then or now.

I’m a kit basher, freelancer, student of “minimum effort modeling” (the idea that you take the commercial product, and you do just what is necessary to make it an effective model of the desired prototype) and ex rivet counter who is more interested in having fun - building trains and running trains.

So how would I fare in your “high standards” group? I can tell you, but its not pretty…

As for the other aspects of your idea, the hobby shop could work if it was a well funded internet store as well. How much money do you have? I’m looking for a post retirement job…

And the train show venue could work, that is all about location…

Sheldon

4

I think it was in MR that I saw an ad for a retirement community with a model railroad. That seems like a smashing idea for me.

For those who want to downsize, you wouldn’t have to deal with steps to the basement, building a new layout or a house that is bigger than you need.

For a brand new, free standing building and real estate, even if it was supported by a train show, would be an enormous cost in the urban areas of the US. Cheaper in small towns, but then you don’t have the potential membership numbers.

Howard’s Montgomery County is one of the most wealthy counties in the country. He should have bought the land and flipped it. [:D]

5

Hello all,

The nearest club layout is more than an hour-and-a-half away, and the nearest museum and train show are more than two-hours away.

If there were a complex, as you describe, I would gladly spend a few hours of travel to support your efforts.

Also, if planning a train themed vacation, an attraction like this would definitely be on the itinerary.

Hope this helps.

6

Henry,

Montgomery county has slipped quite a bit. Howard County now is number 3 in the country. Unfortuantely it is where I live. If not for me, it would most likely be number 2. As soon as I found out about the plan to re-route Rt 29, I dumped the property ASAP. Had I held it longer, who knows, but I got out clean. I know about airplanes, model trains and brass locos, but in real estate I’m out of my league.

HZ

7

Sounds like a giant time-share to me. Practically every person I’ve known who’s purchased one has stated they regretted the decision. I see it as a similar venture and it wouldn’t interest me one bit.

As far as the layout, I would think a freemo-style layout would be much easier to setup, maintain, and dismantle, if needed. A “standard” for modules could then be more easily enforced and maintained - without it detrimentally affecting other parts of the layout. Any offending or inferior module would just be left out and sent back home with the owner until it could be brought up the acceptable “standard” - whatever that meant.

8

#OT Howard Co? I am surprised. Last year there were a number of murders there, that never used to happen.

My wife has medical issues and I have not been able to find time to visit. Maybe soon.

9

“Standards were to be extremely high like everything such as structures and rolling stock would have to be hand built, with nothing allowed in plastic or the unspeakable (then)…RTR!”

With standards like this, you would limit your membership to about 1 person in a 25-mile radius. Maybe.

10

Will the same be sold in the hobby shop.

11

I agree. I was reading it and thinking “ok this doesn’t sound too out there. Not my cup of tea, but not too bad on paper.” Then I got to that line. Seems rather limiting for no functional gain. The relatively flat sides of a boxcar look the same when painted, be it brass or plastic.

12

I can see that this thread is annoying to some so I’ll be removing it. I did not intend it to be so…just wanted ideas on a once viable idea. Note, before the junking of this plan, we had already had possible commitments from 9 modelers.

13

Can’t seem to delete it, so possibly this topic will die a fast death. I’m sorry to have brought it up. I live in the past and although I understand the 21st Century, I prefer times of yore.

HZ

14

I saw that ad in the magazine also. So I checked how big or estate in had. It was a very small layout, that could fit at least two people.

15

Howard, even though I am not personally intersted in joining a club, let alone buying stock in one, I think it was a good plan then, and could still be a good plan.

But your “standards” for the club are unrealistic - then or now.

You mentioned in the past that you finally had the chance to meet Logan Holtgrewe, correct?

As a teen I worked under Logan on the Severna Park Club layout. But even with the high standards of modeling at Severna Park, they had then, and I’m sure they have now, plastic freight cars…

Models should only be judged on the end result, not what they are made of.

I’m all for good modeling, and building models, but elitest ideas like no plastic freight cars? That is a total non starter even for me, let alone the younger/newer crowd.

Do my Varney metal cars fail because the “newer” ones from 1957 have plastic floors? - a good model is a good model, no matter the medium…and a bad model is a bad model, and there was many a bad wooden kit back in the day…

Sheldon

16

Your thread is not annoying, it just started a conversation from model railroaders in 2018 on an idea from 1982. In 1982 there were three hobby shops within 15 miles of my home. They were well stocked and the employees were knowledgeable. They even had scratch building supplies.

Now there is one hobby shop about 15 miles away that’s part of a tourist trap. They used to have a lot of kits and building supplies. Now they have 8-10 Accurail kits and a boatload of RTR. Your business model and club plans might have been fine in 1982, but they need to be updated to 2018 and RTR. Some RTR are really nice. I still build kits but it’s getting harder with arthritis in my hands.

17

Hi Howard!

I have to say that your plan sounded very attractive, that is right up until you specified that everything had to be hand built. I have hand built plenty of models, some to higher standards, some not quite so high. My concern would be that I do not want to have every piece of my rolling stock examined with a magnifying glass before I am allowed to put it on a layout. That whole concept totally turns me off. My club allows any member to run what they want. If the stuff doesn’t run properly then, after giving a reasonable amount of time to correct said problems, the stuff comes off the layout. We don’t give a rodent’s behind what it looks like. “Run what ya brung”.

Dave

18

Howard,Your plan sounds good on paper but,it would never work then or now…

First buy a share,then pay operating dues and still have no say in any matter because your “captain” or my “peers” has the final say…What do I get in exchanged for my money rendered? Sounds like very little and none of my 1982 BB locomotive and cars would be welcome so,why bother to join? Recall in '82 the main stay of the hobby was plastic Athearn and Atlas cars and locomotives.

No club has higher standards then the membership can bear.

In 2018 you would need to rethink your “no plastic or RTR” policy.

19

Since I cannot remove my posting, I guess I’ll have to continue. Folks, the hobby has many genres and levels of proficiency sort of like the Prototype modelers and 1:48 scale people. They have their own meets and many offer workshops and clinics on how to improves skills. My club idea was not going to be an elitist venture, but only a club with the highest standards and we had plans to hold such clinics on workmanship. At the time my skills were not at the level I was proposing, and I had no problem in wanting to develop my modeling skills and this club would have had members who not only could have helped me, but as mentioned…others as well. Today, most if not all of these folks are no longer with us. I can only hope that this breed is not exstinct today.

HZ

20

What if you found someone with the knowledge, skills, and abilities to pull this off but not the money to pay the dues? I know two or three; one about my height.

Robert