I have a bunch of cars that need to be converted from horn hook coupler to metal knuckle . What is needed to convert the diesel engines and assorted types of cars ? I was told that #5 coupler is the most common . The couplers are on the trucks which I’ve also been told is not good and they should be converted to the chassis is this true? So if there on the trucks and I want to put the good couplers on the chassis will #5 couplers and gear boxes work for all the engines and cars ? For the gear boxes how do you get them so there at the correct level to hook up to the next car. Would you convert the engine to the knuckle coupler and set that to a certain height then set the rest to that height ? Where can what is needed for converting the different types ( manufactures of the cars and engines )be found on internet?
So this is the predicament so if you can give me the best advice as to what is needed and necessary.
Thanks Lynn[:)]
My “best advice” is to standardize on ONE type of Kadee coupler (#5 or #58) and use it and it’s coupler box for EVERY conversion. Yes, Kadee makes 347.8 different types of coupler conversion kits, but have you ever run out of a part halfway through a project? Every model ever made can be modified to accept the standard Kadee box, with a little work. Cutting, filing, drilling mounting holes, and adding the occasional scrap of plastic to the underside of a car isn’t that big a deal.
Lynn,
Assuming from your mention of #5 couplers that you are working in HO scale,
you should visit the Kadee Quality Products Co. Web site:
http://www.kadee.com
and select the option that presents the conversion guides for the different brands of rolling stock. As Ray mentioned, it’s not that difficult. The #58 couplers he referred to are a bit closer to scale. You probably should get a Kadee #205 coupler height gauge so that all of your couplers will be mounted at the correct height, and you might want to buy the Kadee #237 “trip pin” pliers for adjusting the curved “air hose” so that it is at the correct height to clear uncoupling ramps, switch bars, etc. A regular small chain link plier is a cheaper option.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543
Unlike orsonroy, I recommend finding the best coupler for each specific application. While other people have spent hours working like mad to file, wedge, shim, clip, fit a #5, I’ll get the recommended conversion, screw it on and be done. Usually works better in the long run too. I am a really big fan of the #40 series.
Yes and no. 1. Body mounted couplers are better because they pull the train not the wheels just like a real train. Becuase of the tiny sharp curves we use with model trains they have the disadvantage of swinging way out away from the center line of the track. In fact on very tight corners cars of different length can derail each other. 2. truck mounted couplers follow the curvature of the track so the sharp curved and length of the cars doesn’t matter. They also couple on curves much better. The problem is with long and/or heavy trains the trucks are actually binding in the curves, and have to be torqued through. This problem also shows up trying to back up a train. Once again the longer/heavier the worse the effect.
The worst case is to have mixed types, because then some car’s hooks are following the curves and others are swinging out…
I believe the truck mounted couplers are called talgo and Kadee makes conversions for them. Unfortunately I have never used these and can offer no good advice. They look an awful lot like a #5 to me. http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page51.htm
The bigger problem you might face trying to body mount is that may cars made with truck mounted couplers do not have any place to mount one to the body. With cars like these one ends up having to re-engineer the entire lower end of the
Yes, you want the Kadee height gauge.
I’ve been converting for 6 months now, and I’ve got a lot more to go. Since my fleet is 40-50 years old, each car presents a “unique challenge,” and I choose to look at it that way to keep from throwing up my hands in frustration and heading for the fridge.
I started with a small package of Kadee #5’s, and a package of the Talgo adapters. The Talgo trucks I’ve got look nothing like the ones the Kadee package is designed for, so I scrapped that idea. Next, I bought a package of “draft gear boxes” which is what they call the little plastic boxes the couplers mount in. I also got a bunch of 2-56 screws to mount them with.
My toolkit includes a Dremel rotary tool. (What a great tool! How did I ever live without it?) Most of the time, I have to completely remove the old couplers, pockets and all, and mount a complete Kadee unit. Whenever possible, I drill and tap for a 2-56 screw. For the Talgos, I cut the coupler mount completely off the truck, and body-mount the couplers. The only exceptions I made are for the 72-foot passenger cars, which probably wouldn’t work around the 18-inch radius curves without the truck-mounted couplers.
It sounds like more work than it is, by the way. For an old Athearn, where the old box and center pin are just right for the Kadee, it takes about 2 minutes per coupler. Even for the really challenging ones with Talgo trucks that need body mounts, I don’t usually spend more than 15 minutes total to do a car at both ends.
Kadee makes a couple of sample packages. Get the one that includes the coupler height gauge, trip pin tool and uncouplers. It has a fairly good sampling of the different couplers. You do not need to standardise on on model of Kadee as they all work together, even the “scale” #58 and the really small “old timer”.
If you decide you need to cut off the truck mounted couplers, you will have to get some sheet plastic to put between the floor and the coupler box to get the coupling the right height. Right height is vital; mismatched couplings will come apart more readily on uneven track.
I agree that the Kadee height gauge and trip pin tool are a must. The #5 or #58 couplers will work for most cars and locomotives, but sometimes it’s good to use a different type if it works. The long shank #46 ones are good for snowplow equipped diesels, for example. I also like the #118 shelf couplers for tank cars.
I try to avoid the offset shank types where the coupler head is higher or lower than normal unless there’s no other way to get them to come out at the right height (mostly because I think they look odd, not because it works any worse).
Having some of the little Kadee fiber washers on hand to shim the car height can be useful, though for me at least the cars usually end up too high rather than too low. I’ve gotten good at shaving the truck bolsters to lower them.
I almost never use the Kadee draft gear box. Nearly all rolling stock in HO comes with a Kadee-compatible mounting, at least inthe major (non-craftsman) kit arena. What advantage do you get in removing the existing mounting?
It you want to replace Talgo Trucks with regular trucks and add Kadee 5s or 58s, there are a couple of articles on the NMRA web site that may be of help.
Knuckle Couplers - http://www.nmra.org/beginner/couplers.html
Retrucking old r-t-r cars - http://www.nmra.org/beginner/retrucking.html
Lots. Athearn cars (the standard for the hobby) come with horrible metal clip-on plates that don’t work well. They’re also not to the correct height. MDC cars come with soft plastic boxes and cruddy 2-56 screws, and like to strip out. Many resin cars come with cast on coupler box, which usually shrinks out of true. Intermountain, Tichy and Red Caboose cars sometimes come with coupler boxes that get glued together and onto the car, meaning that you’d have to break apart the box and underframe if you ever needed to fix a coupler. The list goes on…
It’s a good idea to use one of the plastic draft gear boxes for any metal-frame car, or one with a metal plate inside for weight. Kadee couplers are all-metal, so it’s possible to establish electrical conductivity all the way from the track up to the coupler. If you end up with two such cars that happen to have their insulated wheels on the opposite sides, they can short through the couplers. With the plastic draft gear boxes, you can be sure that the coupler shafts are insulated from the frame.
This is also important if you are converting older locomotives. I ended up grinding down the entire metal coupler pocket on some of mine so that I could install a plastic draft gear box.
One idea that someone suggested when I asked a similar question was to only convert one truck on a handful of cars. Then you can continue to use your HH couplers while you convert other cars. This allows you to use new locos and such while keeping your exisiting rolling stock investment moving.
-Tom