I have recently gotten new to me non powered b unit. They are both athern also pa units with kadee #5 cuplers. The coupler height of both units are different. what would be the options to take care of it. The only thing I can think of is to bend down the things of the higher one andbend up the one thats lower. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Kadee makes couplers with raised or lowered heads, called underset shank and overset shank. Check Kadee’s web site for details.
Just scroll down the page until the various coupler types appear.
Kadee makes a zillion different models of coupler. Locomotives seldom take the common #5 coupler. Go to the Kadee website (www.kadee.com I think) and find the ‘what fits what list’. This list has the proper coupler for every piece of rolling stock made in the last 50 years. Find your Athearn PA units, they probably call for something other than a #5 coupler. Buy the recommended couplers and install them, and you will find everything fits properly.
Hello All,
Definitely check out the Kadee website for conversion instructions.
Yes, they make couplers with the coupler heads at differing heights; center-set, under-set, over-set and length; short, medium and long, along with different Draft Gear Boxes configurations, both stock and aftermarket.
Which units couplers match the rest of your rolling stock? That’s the coupler height you need to match on the other unit. From there you can determine which coupler you need.
My advice would be to get a Kadee Coupler Height Gage; I prefer the #206. It’s insulated so you can use it on your layout without having to turn the power off to check coupler height.
I would also check how the couplers on each unit are mounted. Has one been modified? If it has been modified, how well?
Keep us informed on how the conversion is going.
Hope this helps.
Rich,
I would try what has been suggested, about the different coupler’s…when I run them, I did not care too much about height match…I would not try to bend the casting…it is possible if done properly with a precision vise and scrap pine wood in the jaws of the vise and truck inbetween…but done carefully and slowly… Had I’ve known…I would have done it for You…darn It.
Good Luck! Try the other coupler’s first. I don’t believe the castings are brittle yet…but they are from the 70’s.
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
Since I posted the original post, I have done some checking and everything. The couple height of the athern pa-2 matches the height of all of the cars I have. I checked the Pa-2 against the other Athern Pa1 (have two of the pa-1’s). One the first one from earlier that I posted about, the heights are different. The second one, the heights match perfectly. Now i am wondering and puzzled why there would be a difference. [banghead][:^)][sigh] Could it be that something about the first one has been change (such as the wheel base set)? Is there something I am missing? Thanks.
Hello All,
So, you’ve discovered a difference. That’s great!
What is differet from the rest?
Is the odd-one-out higher or lower than the other cars couplers?
Once you determine this then you can use the Kadee chart to figure out which coupler would work for your application.
Hope this helps.
What is different is the coupler hight of the the first engine.
The odd one out is higher then the rest, about the thickness of the coupler head itself.
Sean,
Don’t try bending the coupler shanks. As has been mentioned there is a risk of the shank breaking when you bend it. And it may not break now but if it cracks when you bend it it will probably break leter, like when you are running a train.
And even if the shank bends OK, it will leave the coupler head at an angle other than perpendicular resulting with a poor matchup with other couplers.
Hi Sean:
Sorry, I’m not familiar with the Athearn PAs, but I will still ask a question:
Are the couplers mounted on the shell or the frame? If they are on the shell then I suspect that the shell is not sitting down properly on the frame. Have a look for wires out of place etc. that are preventing the shell from seating correctly.
Kadee actually recommends using a #27 or #37 coupler which are both underset shank styles. In other words they suggest that the coupler head should be raised to get it to the correct height, but if one coupler is out by the height of a coupler head something else is going on.
Dave
Dave,
The Athearn BB’s PA’s the coupler pocket is molded into the bottom cover plate on the truck if my memory serves me correctly and there is no place to body mount couplers on the shell or chassis. They are also very long six-wheel trucks which aren’t very easy to replace. BB PA’s & B’s are pretty long, a scale 65ft without couplers for the ‘‘A’’ and a scale 60ft for the ‘‘B’’ which is a dummy and they used the same chassis as a ‘‘A’’. There are no wires, it is DC. it is possible that the one that He is saying has a coupler head difference in height, may have 40’’ wheelsets, they should be 42’'.
Those long BB’s were designed to run on 18’’ radius curves right out of the box, hence the truck mounted coupler’s.
Sean…feel free to send me a E-mail anytime on this.
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
Dave, the coupler is mounted to the trucks/wheel base. I’ll have to go to a bigger hobby store and see if they have some couplers that will work.
Thanks everyone for the help.
Frank, thank you to for everything.
Sean,
The bottom plate of the truck, which also has the coupler pocket attached, just clips onto the the metal frame of the truck. make sure both ends of the cover are fully clipped on and well seated. If not, the whole plate will be angled or out of position.
Also it is not uncommon for that plastic to warp, those parts should not be too hard to fine, you may just want to replace the two truck covers with new one and see if that fixes it. I will look, I pay have a couple you could have.
And, a #5 coupler should work fine in that loco.
Sheldon
Sheldon, It would be appreciated, but you don’t need to. When I get home, I’m going spend some time on the railroad and see if I can figure out what’s going on. What’s so weird is that the height of the two pa-1’s and the pa-2 when lined up on the track are Ll the same.
It might be what frank aka zstrip said (I this k it was him, it could be the trucks are off the 40 foot engine.
jjdamnit: would this link be considered the overset:
Hi Sean:
Yes, those are ‘overset’ couplers.
If you haven’t done this already, before spending any money on couplers, I would suggest that you take the two trucks, one with the coupler at the right height and the other with the couple too high, and compare them very carefully. Ideally do it with the trucks removed from the locomotives so you can get the best possible view. Something is out of place, or not seated properly, or maybe bent, and it would be better IMHO to identify the exact problem and correct it rather than patch it.
My other concern is that the overset shank may not bring the coupler head down enough. You had mentioned previously that the difference in height between the couplers was about equivalent to the height of the coupler head itself. A #5 Kadee coupler head is approx. 5/32nds high (or 10/64 ths). The overset shank will only lower the head by about 3/64ths, so the head may still be as much as 7/64ths too high even with the overset shank.
Somebody please correct me if my numbers are wrong. I was out to lunch on my previous suggestion about the shell being out of place[D)].
Dave
One thought crossed my mind, have you checked whether the frame maybe bent on the odball PA? I’ve come across a couple of bent Athearn frames over the years. If it is bent that could explain the height difference.
modelmaker,
I will check to see if it is.
Hon30critter,
I will see if something is out of place somehow.
I. Checked everything. Everything looked OK. No bent frames, the trucks appear that they are sitting on. One thing I noticed is that (have 3 pa-1’s,) one just acquired but has no motor, is that all 3 are different from each other. One of the two original one I have (both of which has motors and the one that also has the coupler issue) appears to be like the pa-1 of which it matches the parts list diagram included. The other one, appears to match the other diagram that shows parts that I have which was included in the box, which is for the gp-38-2 one with a pa-1 shell. I was able to get the one that’s high to loser a little though, so I think the over/lower couple would work and be OK.
Sean,
A little bit of info for You…Athearn did make two different styles of the PA ‘‘A’’ in relation to motors/flywheels, drive train. The PA ‘‘A’’ without the motor, is the newer version with the Gold wrapped motor and flywheels and I’m pretty sure the drive line is a little different. That engine diagram is for that engine…look at the diagram again and on the right side, You’ll see an asterisk that explains it somewhat. The other PA’‘A’’ may be the older version…don’t know if You bought it new or someone redid it…but if You havn’t checked the height of the wheel sets…please do so, it may have 40 inch wheels, instead of the 42 inch wheels, which should be on them and that will make a little difference in coupler matching. The ‘‘B’’ unit is the same era as the ‘‘A’’, the SP Daylight one, just a different road name, so they should match-up perfect. The ‘‘B’’ unit chassis, is an ‘‘A’’ chassis, that’s how they made them.
Take Care! [:D]
Frank