OK, I know the thing that I need to match coupler height but what I do not know is what to do when there is a problem?
I have around 25 Athearns rolling stock that I am fitting with Kadee’s # 5’s. I have more than one car that the coupler is a good 1/4" higher than another. don’t need the NMRA thing to see that problem! Lower coupler will just catch the bottom of the upper one!
Do I buy a drop neck coupler for the high car?
Install a washer between the truck and body of the low car?
Go from 33 to 36 wheels on the low car?
Install 30" wheels on the high car?
I have around 95 rolling stock, mainly cheap LL and Bachmans and a few Tyco’s. Some on the cheaper cars have the same problems and still have horn couplers. Ideas on fixing them? One of the reason I run Horn Hooks still is because they seem to stay coupled better with the driffrent heights of the couplers. Yes, I have to pick them up to get them to hook but they stay hooked better than the Kadees.
Can I get drop neck Horn couplers? I Know, they are junk but I have so many of the cheap stuff that I like I would like to make them work better with out spending a B unit and a Caboose to make them all Kadees’s.
So you have low couplers and high couplers, you know that. But you dont know which of them if any are at the correct height. The Kadee guage is the best, but if you are in a fix just put a 3x5 index card on the track. The coupler pin should clear the card without touching it but not be too high above it. This isnt an exact measurement but its close enough for now. If couplers are too low the easiest thing to do is buy kadee washers. They are small washers in .010" and .015" (I think) sizes. They go between the truck and the underframe of the car. Installing these will raise the coupler. If the coupler is too high its a little harder. Kadee sells the drop shank couplers but the drop is pretty significant. If it only needs to come down a bit the easiest thing to do is find smaller wheels. But sometimes thats not possible and sometimes it just looks funny.
Even though the fix is easier, low couplers are a bigger problem than high ones. They will rub or sometimes even catch turnouts and crossings. This can make derailments, and if it hits in the perfect spot, shorts. Nobody has all of thier couplers totally perfect. Just get them as close as you can and thats all you can do. If you get to a point when they are reliable and the small differences don’t bother you. You are close enough.
Through my rather short experience with mixed manufacturerers, and horn hook or knuckle couplers, I can only surmize that most modelers have this problem, Hence the reason for the Kadee coupler height guage. I tried to buy one a few weeks ago, but my LHS didn’t have any in stock.
Here is what I did.
Take the loco that you like best, and start from there. Place the loco on the track, then add add one car at a time- even turning cars around sometimes will make a difference, until you have either ran out of stock, or have made the train long enough to be happy with.
All the rest of the rolling stock will then have to be modified. Even Athearn BB stock- won’t be consistent in coupler heights. It can be a frustrating experience, only second to derailments.
And this is supposed to be fun!?
Then there will be the point as to where the expense will override the joy, and then it will be time to sell on E-bay. Ha.
Not me- mine will end up in my 90 gallon trash compartment.
There is only one way to fix this. Get a Kadee coupler guage and match everything to it. Measuring the pin does no good, as even Kadee pins vary. You also need to determine the problem. Is the car too high or too low? Is the coupler box mounted too high or too low? Is the car floor warped (very common with BB Athearn)? Is the coupler drooping in the box? Is the couipler box cover not attached correctly? So many problems - only one answer - Kadee coupler height guage.
The kadee gauge will check your coupler height and trip pin height - it also checks if your coupler is centered. If your coupler is the wrong height then you can adjust the body of the car or use an a coupler with an offset shank. The NMRA standards gauge is more than just a coupler height, it allows you to check your wheels and trackwork, both of which are important to good operation.
Even with hornhooks you should bring them to standard height. Mount one hornhook on a block of wood at the correct height and check your fleet of cars and engines.
Ken, actually the problem of coupler height is relatively simple to fix. If you have a lot of rolling stock, it’s still easy, just time consuming. First off, buy the Kadee coupler height gauge. It not only tells you if your coupler height is off, but the uncoupler pin (that little hose looking dooma-floggy that hangs down).
These are both assuming that your couplers are body mounted. If you are using Talgo trucks (trucks that have the coupler pocket attached to them), you are pretty much limited to offset couplers.
The others have told you how to fix the problem. I’m going to make a slightly different suggestion after reading most of your posts (again, it’s owrth every cent you paid for it!)
After you get you NMRA gauge (to check wheels and track) and your Kadee coupler height gauge to check coupler height do a quick one time check with the gauges of all your rolling stock and turnouts.
Anything that is not up to spec remove from the layout with a sticky that says what’s wrong with it. In the case of turnouts, if only one path is out of gauge use only the other path. If both paths are out, cover the turnout so it can’t be used.
If you’re like me, you’l find 3/4 of your rolling stock is now off the layout, and there may only be one path left for a train to run on. That’s OK. What is good will run very well, and will give you pleasure instead of frustration. Now, if you have a derailment anywhere put a sticky beside it, and write down what car or loco derailed. If the same car or loco derails someplace else, remove it from the layout. If a different car or loco derails at the same location, the track is bad and cannot be used until it is fixed.
Obviously, fixing track has higher priority than the rolling stock (just like the prototype) as long as you have one loco that is in gauge and spec. Once the track is in good shape, you’ll be adding cars and locos as you get them adjusted and fixed up. Don’t worry about how short your trains are for the time being. As you add more, they will be a joy to run, and your frustration will be gone.
Just remember the rule - if 2 different known good pieces derail in the same place, fix the track. If the same car or loco derails twice, fix the piece.
NOT recommended. If you’re going to try to work without the Kadee gauge for a couple weeks until your hobby shop gets one in stock for you, chose the car or loco for reference by measuring properly. If you have the NMRA gauge, there’s a slot for the coupler height. Just make sure the gauge is perfectly vertical when checking. If not, you can measure with a good machinist’s ruler. In HO scale, the center of the head is to be 25/64 inch above the railhead and the trip pin is to clear the railhead by 1/32 inch. You can use a strip of brass 1/32 inch thick for the trip pin measurement.
But definately order the gauge. We’re only talking $4.00 for the HO scale one.
1. Get a Kadee #205 coupler gage. You need a point of reference.
2. Get a Kadee #13 sampler kit: an assortment
3. Get a pkg of Kadee #47 offsets for those 1/4" too low’s.
4. Get 1 pkg ea. Kadee #208#209 fibre washers for fine adjustments.
Go from there.
Oh brother! You rebuilt a hotrod? What you have is a collection of cars - Fiats, Mini Coopers, Renaults, Isettas, and Yugos, and you want their bumpers to be the same height? In a word -Rotts-a-ruck..
Take one horn hook car and put a Kadee coupler on one end to use as a ‘Conversion’ car until you have all those worth converting, converted. What you have acquired Ken, is a batch of toys for the 'kid’s market that were never designed to be serious models. No wonder you’re frustrated!
Ken, ‘Mickey Mouse’ watches aren’t made to keep accurate time, and you know the old saying about “getting off the pot”? It’s decision t
Mr Gibson (love your gutairs)[:)] I have never been on Herb![;)] But now down to the real answer. Yes, I am done buying the LL, Tyco cars and most of the Bachmans. (still like more of there THE ROCK cars in blue) and going with the Athearns for now on. I am on a tight budget and lucky to have $10.00 a week to spend. If I still had money out the butt I would buy 100 PK 2 rolling stock.
As far as being a Hot Rodder, guess that is the reason I am still messing with the cheap rolling stock. Main goal of a gear head is to make something that won’t work run like heck! Guess you have seen a PIC of the money pit, blowen 69 Charger? Well it broke in half from rust and I am not kidding! I can post pic to prove it. I was told that I could never fix it, well being a gear head and not to bright I saved the POS. Guess the cheap cars are pretty much the same thing, it wil take me a while but I wwill figuer it out. Guess I need to think in gear head mode but about MRRing.
Allso thanks on the heads up on the Kadee #13, that is some I did not know was offred.
Medina1128, thanks for the links, I knew a little about the washers for to low couplers. LHS installed some on a Athearn BB A&B F-7 that coulper where off a mile. Finaly used a powered A chassis under the B body and couplers matched. Washers helped but still not the ticked.
I have some 26" wheels and will give them a try on the high cars.
I do have the NHRA standard Gage and has helped me a lot on finding bad axels.
Thanks for all the help folks.
Cuda Ken
PS, Mr Gibson, would you sign my Less Paul and ES-335?[:)]
Hope you did not take my answer the wrong way either, I like your advises but sstill just a little hard headed at this point.
Ken, Everyone else answered the height questions very well and I only have one thing to add. On our now demoed club layout we often had visitors with either type coupler, so we did a few cars with horn-hook type at one end and Kadee at the other, and were able to run trains with both type couplers! It also made for some interesting switching! Happy railroading! jc5729
I’ve noticed that too. Some Athearn cars will be spot-on, while the others will need either offset couplers, or a washer on the truck bolsters.
Keep in mind too, that you don’t have to convert everything to Kadee couplers all at once. You can always make an “adapter” car, with a Kadee on one end, and a horn-hook on the other…and then gradually switch things over.
I don’t know why, but it seems to be to everyone’s surprise that Athearn is not in step with the NMRA, as well as designing products that discourage use of Kadee couplers. BB, RTR, and GENESIS!.
ONLY excuse is one doesn’t have a KD coupler gauge. Having one without using it is inexcusable. They’re cheap, plus you’re buying Athearn
BLUE BOX: Car’s standard coupler pockets have a friction sprung botton that droops, and even falls off when coupling cars together too hard. SOLUTION: is to CUT OFF the molded-on coupler box with an XACTO blade and cement on a KD #5.
BB Engines have HOTchassis. Metal couplers must be insulated from the chassis. NO #4s. Consult Kadee’s website for recommendations OR USE # 30’S.
RTR’s:I have will take the #5 (or #40 series to clear the snowplow) - provided the lip has been removed from the top to allow seating.
GENESIS: units’ coupler pockets need #20 series to fit, except the Highliner shelled ‘F’s which take #33’s and #38’A’ noses to preserve the original spacing.
Interesting that Atlas, Stewart, Kato, InterMountain, and most other products take Kadee’s without problems. Must be an accident ?
All of the above is good advice; Let me add 2 more pieces. One, if you have any cars w/ truck mounted couplers either convert them to body mounts or take them out of service (if you can’t bear to throw them away, use them for scenery.) Two, if you’re converting Athearn BB to KDs you’ve probably notice they’re all too low. EAsy Fix. Take the half of the KD box that has the stud that the cplr pivots on and remove the little lip at one end. Now shave off the truck pivot stud from the Athearn car’s bolster and glue the (trimmed) KD box in its place. Thus should bring the hight to where it belongs.
LESTER is supposed to be in NYC. Have him sign your Git-tar as ‘Rhubarb Red’ - his early stage name -. It’ll become collectors item. In the meantime, don’t take up brain surgery.
You bought a bunch of leftovers - and expect to make a 9 course dinner out of it? Fire your Purchasing Agent.
I gather from the Supercharged engine and slot car test track you posted, that you like things that are ‘fast’.
In Slot-car Racing the goal is to see how fast you can go without flipping. Model trains don’t stay on the track when run too fast. Most trains today run at 45 to 55 MPH. 60mph is an 1 ft/per second in HO and 6" per in ‘N’.
It just occurred to me that this alone could explain much of your problem. Just a guess.
I’ve noticed the same thing, and not only with Athearn. Most recent changes were the Walthers Superliner cars. Some even have different number couplers on each end.