After chasing a long runaway train down a grade due to a lousy separated coupler, I began to be a bit annoyed. The failed coupler was one of the so many “Kadee” wannabes that manufacturers are using in most of today’s RTR equipment. Somehow this car with the knockoff couplers worked its way into my train.
Question proposed to RTR manufacturers…why not spend just a bit more (possibly a buck) to complete a very well made product with Kadees? From my experience these knockoffs are designed for one thing…to be tossed in the trash bucket along side of any X2f’'s (horn hooks) that may be lying around.
Actually when I first entered this hobby, I was using Baker couplers with the unsightly hoops and locks, but they worked…also for John Allen. Now Kadee’s are by far the finest, and should be the industry standard.
My 50 cents worth …Also I’m still a fan of the Kadee #5. 58’s look great, but to convert over 900 cars…nah!
Gidday Howard, one of my Grandfathers had a saying, "Don’t spoil the barrel for a ha’penny worth of tar". It would appear this philosophy has escaped certain manufacturers.
That’s sort of funny in a way,as far as horn-hook couplers go,I usually had more problem’s,getting them to un-couple…I don’t recall ever having one un-couple,by itself…[(-D] They were not the best though,prototype speaking…
Frank,A simple twist with a small flat tip screwdriver with a slight movement of the car would uncouple those couplers.Today most uses skewers to uncouple cars. Nothing really changed.
To get those couplers to work one needed to clip the uncoupling pin and be sure the coupler was at the correct height.
Unfortunately, most people shop by price alone. Soooo the manufacturer’s give us the lowest price, even when it’s not the best value. (And that’s not just trains either)
The only solution is to only buy the cars that come RTR with Kadees. Otherwise take RTR to mean Ready to Repair and replace the OEM couplers with Kadees.
I have never used any of those plastic knock offs, change them out before stuff even sees the rails.
I don’t use any of the semi scale versions, by Kadee or anyone - they don’t really work as well if you are using NMRA track standards - gathering range, more front to back play, etc.
I do seem to recall, that until a few years back, Kadee would not sell their product to the manufacturers for factory installation. They do now, and some do use them on locos.
As for converting a large fleet to the semi scale couplers, in addition to the operational reasons not to use them - I agree - no way I’m converting 800 freight cars, 200 passenger cars and about 130 locos
When I get a new engine or piece of rolling stock, I just put it on the layout and run it. But, sooner or later, it will come time to weather it. If the plastic junk couplers haven’t broken by then, they will be replaced with Kadee #58s once the body and trucks are weathered.
#58 is my standard coupler, but I still have a lot of #5s on my layout. I’m happy to report that the two are very “interoperable.” I’ve got no plans to swap out the #5s.
As for horn-hooks, I’ve still got my uncoupler ramps for them if anyone is interested. They are plastic inserts with stiff wire pieces that engage the lower section of the horn-hooks. They worked pretty well, as I recall, although they might interfere with the trucks of some of today’s engines. I’ve even got one that’s mounted with an electromagnet, and only engages when you push the button.
I run nearly all Kadee #158s/#153s/#156s, with the exception of a couple of pieces of equipment with McHenry scale couplers, and another piece with the old-style Kadee head due to needing underset-shank couplers.
But I prefer and change out as much as I can to Kadee #158s.
You may have answered your own question - it costs more. A few thoughts:
I’d wager that the bulk of freight cars spend most of their time in a box. Many people buy more than they can possibly use, while others stash them away for that dream layout that never gets built.
The average hobbyist is highly tolerant of poor performance. Judging by what I see at train shows and layout tours, frequent uncoupling and derailing is often treated as normal.
Modelers are price sensitive, more than occasionally valuing quantity over quality. How often do we see people at train shows shopping only by price, even those who already have huge stockpiles of cars they don’t run?
Given the above, it’s easy for manufacturers to realize that a large proportion of potential customers are not motivated by improved performance possible with genuine Kadees. They can determine that the greater profit margin from including cheap couplers more than offsets any possible lost sales or loss of goodwill. They’re probably right. I can’t recall passing on a car just because I knew I’d have to replace the stock couplers.
Ah yes-s. Beika couplers, which came standard on about 80% of my rolling stock. In 1960s Japan they were the equivalent of horn hooks, and provided a nice metal-to-metal continuity to the little tin boxes they were installed on. Fortunately the wheels were ALL insulated from the axles…
Because of their geometry, the standard replacemant was/is a Kadee #6
The late Ed Ravenscroft used horn-hooks that worked reliably. He had been the NMRA president when the X2F coupler was developed. He once told me that not one of the manufacturers ever got the dimensions exactly right.
The few Kadee clones that came on kitbash fodder will serve until the first failure or the first shopping for maintenance. I have a stock of genuine Kadees available to replace them. OTOH, cars in unit train or fixed-cut service have Kadee K couplers where they will never be uncoupled in normal service.
I will admit that I model on the cheap. The Kadees on some (most?) of my cars cost more than the cars did…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with appropriate couplers)
A simple 5 minute job would cost more per car then most is willing to pay-search the cost of the hobby on this and other forums.A bulk pack of KD couplers will last for a very long time and works out to around $1.00 a pair whereas pre equipped on a freight car they would cost around $7-8.00 a pair since the couplers would need shipped to China plus the added labor costs.
Walther’s uses their “Protomax II” coupler on their newest releases-check the prices on these rehash cars.
As was mentioned earlier Ed Ravenscroft had a great deal of success using the X2F couplers on his layout. He even went as far as to rig actual uncoupling levers on the cars and locos, made of a small piece of wire, with one end bent at a 90` angle down, supported at the car end, and the other end inserted into a small hole drilled into the coupler body. just by “squeezing” these levers between 2 cars, they were uncoupled. When asked about his success with these couplers in an article by Lynn Westcott, IIRC 1972, Ed explained that its just like using KD couplers. Stay with one brand, and mount them using a gauge, and shim washers as necessary to make them the same height. The gauge he used was a KD gauge with an X2F coupler in it. The brand he used was made by Rail Line, as they did have a coil spring mounted in the coupler box pushing on the end of the coupler.
For a couple of years after the article I used Athearn X2F’s as my standards, but their design wasn’t as good as Rail Lines, and as a result I experienced only about 80% success with them. When I did switch couplers, I switched to KD’s as everyone else in the group had changed out to them, and the Rail Lines were as expensive as the KD’s.
When properly mounted the X2F worked quite well for its day and of course the X2F was the standard coupler that was included on every RTR locomotive and cars(remember that era?) and in every plastic car kit and Athearn and Roundhouse locomotive kit.
I agree with your proposal. From a customer/modeler stand point, this is a no brainer. Yet manufacturers have continued to add detail and improve models in most ways except to address the couplers. HellooOOOo! At least a few like ExactRail and Intermountain have smelled the coffee and put KD’s on their models now for some time. Athearn Genesis needs to drop the plastic couplers as do a few others. Walthers has their own metal couplers which are very much like KD#5. We’re getting there but some stubborn companies have heald out.
As for keeping trains from separating, the answer is out there! Just do it!
And here’s the down side…Prices are already high now…Add the KD couplers and that just might the the price bubble bursting point that breaks the manufacturers back from the lack of sales.
A simple 5 minute job where little skill is required and its not worth the additional $7.-10.00 or more per car-price of the coupler,shipment to China and labor…Somebody will need to pay for that and it won’t the manufacturer.