[A] Based on info I’ve read before the Walther’s Passenger Car couplers are the correct “prototypical” height. However they sit way too high to couple onto Athearn Blue Box locomotives and some P2K Geeps.
Add to that the Walther’s construction makes it difficult for shimming. [%-)]
[B] Would also like to be able to couple the Rivorossi passenger cars with the Walthers cars. Same problem. Walthers couplers mounted too high for coupling.
Would very much appreciate your input and ideas.[:)][:D][8D][;)][8)]
FIRST- use the NMRA coupler height guage. If you have a real height problem go to the Kadee overset shank replacement couplers # in the 20’s I believe, which effectively lowers the coupler relative to the carbody. check with Kadee for exact model numbers.
You really should body mount your couplers…it always works better…I’ve had to rebuild entire underframes before with styrene plastic and shims to get the coupler at the proper height to line up to the Kadee height gauge (especially on hoppers) but once it’s done they work great…Chuck
I’d be more concerned with achieving a uniform height for all locos and rolling stock using a Kadee or NMRA gauge (as mentioned above) than basing it off the protoype height for individual cars, be it though shims, spacers, or offset couplers. Body mounting will help because it provides a more stabile platform.
Are the Walthers Budd car’s couplers too high or the Athearn’s too low - or both?
Rivarossi is a ‘can of worms’ because they (used to) come with 31" wheels and Talgo horn hook couplers. I replaced all of mine with KaDee’s, JayBee 36" wheels and coupler pads, added teflon grease in the journals, and cut away the moulded-on brake shoes…When I got through they matched the KD coupler height gauge perfectly.
I have always found all Athearn’s coupler heights too LOW . Proto 2000"s I haven’t noticed this problem - their couplers, YES.
You’re right, Don, Athearn’s couplers have always been on the low side–with the exception of some of their newer RTR cars from China, which are proving to be on the HIGH side–at least as far as I’ve found. But there is a problem with the Walther’s passenger cars, and not only coupling with Athearn or Proto locos. I bought a set of the new ‘shortie’ passenger cars to go with my PFM Rio Grande Pacific–which is at the right coupler height–and low and behold, they are too high! Ended up replacing them all with the lowered head Kadees and they work just fine. The Walther’s cars are body-mounted, so shimming them just isn’t a possibility. Oddly enough, I just acquired a set of their Troop cars, and the couplers are fine. So I don’t know what’s going on.
If you keep the Walthers Budd coupler level and use the NMRA gauge you will see that they are indeed too high. Some of this may be the EZ mate coupler that was used not fitting snug in the coupler box. What you can do is install Kaddee overset couplers #22/32/42 and this will lower the Knuckles.
ref .http://trainbuddy.com/Notes/Notes.htm
I have asked Walthers about this problem and about the lighting module problem. I should be getting an answer next week from the man that designed the car.
What’s going on is buying different products from different factories, in different countries, with different standards, and exchange rates, - to have the best price - for consumers.
Some Importers have poorer Quality Control, and I think few IMPORTERS have engineering staff’s, relying instead on the factory’s.
I think complaints to the Importer are the only solution .
I installed #42 Kadee’s, at Kadee’s suggestion, on the Budd cars & it brought the coupler height inline with my Athearn P42.
The 42’s also sit the way the Walthers couplers sit, under the diaphram.
I won’t have to modify my Proto PA as the couplers sit at the same height.
I found that Walthers couplers are often mounted too high - at least, on my Superliners/Bilevel commuter cars/Pullman Sleeper this was the case. I’m working on changing them for Kadee #5s, which seem to work out at the right height against the Kadee gauge. Athearn locos are a real can of worms where couplers are concerned - some need #38s, some #37s, etc, etc! Best advice would be to go over to the Kadee website and look under “Conversions”, though their advice is sometimes a little out, such as with the Dash 9 where they suggest #28s - I found #21s and #27s a better fit.
In my limited experience of Proto locos (I only have three, a C-Liner A/B set and an Erie-Built), these seem to take Kadee #5s as a straight swap. Hope this is of help to someone!
Don, you are 100% correct. That is the exact reason most manufacturing companies have adopted a relatively new control standard called ISO9000 or a variation of this. It ensures that if a measuring tool (and other things) in China indicates 2mm or 0.015" it will match exactly the same tool in the USA. Everyones specs and tools are exactly the same.
RESULT: All parts, regardless of where they are made will go together as the design specifies.
I am very greatful for the wealth of suggestions and solutions you’ve provided. Since they vary I’ll study each suggestion given. [:)][:D][8D][8)][;)]
Just at a glance, it looks like a quick solution for the Rivorossis is to go ahead and
[1] remove the brake shoes. (Let the rivit counters cringe! [:0]) [:p][:p]
[2] Replace the "31 wheels with "36 wheels to help bring them up to the same height as the Walther’s cars, Don seems to lean towards JayBee. My LHS stocks JayBee & Intermountains. I’ll buy them.
[3] Then install the KaDee “offset shank” couplers on the Walthers cars, which should drop down the knuckles. I hope that this will allow coupling with Athearn FP45s, P2k E7s, and P2k GP9s. I’ve noticed that Athearn Blue Box locomotive coupler boxes are especially low from the factory.
Since I will have between "22 and "24 radius curves on my upcoming layout’s 2 track mainline, I will have to replace the couplers on the Walther’s cars anyway. I’ll need a coupler that sticks out further from the car to allow the swivel of the curves.
Guys, again thanks so much! Please keep submitting your suggestions and ideas. I’m going to e-mail this thread to Walthers. [C):-)][tup]
I’m sure you meant to type overset, but just in case; Overset means the shank joins the knuckle at the top half and underset the lower half. And of course centerset, the center. To lower the knuckle you want overset.
Great idea to send email. It will back up what I have been trying to tell them. This is type of action we can all take on quality issues. If we deluge them with email, maybe they will get the idea.
The ‘6’ couplers ( #26, #36, and # 46) were designed for passenger cars on 22" curves. The #40 series has short, med., and long shanks with underset and overset heads. i used to buy the more expensive 20 series just for those features.
My favorites are the #36’s for Passenger (two height adjustments) and #43 for Diesels (looking more realistic when replacing #58’s). I also buy extra springs when using the 30’s (all thumbs) Added 30’s benefit is equal ‘swing’ to each side.
I adjust all cars to std. KD height, but with most passenger consists, only the Engine is coupled and uncoupled. The rest of the cars could be draw-bar’d.
Antonio…the couple height may vary depending on the version of BB you have. The older frames with the pins holding on the body, had the clips hold the coupler on from below, the newer ones with the tabs in the fuel tanks have the clips hold the coupler down above the mount. If you tap the hole on the older ones you can mount a Kadee box on the bottom of the tab and then find the right offset shank, if one is needed at all. On the new type you may have to file the tab down even to get an offset shank to line up right. Or you can body mount the couplers, stacking some styrene stock.
I actually have a mixture of the older and new Athearn BB locomotives. I will likely sell my older BB locos as when I calculate costs of remotoring and tweaking, it’s cheaper to buy new or “slightly used” P2k units. My newer Athearn BB Cowls and U-Boats were my main focus. As mentioned the coupler tabs do sit quite low. Your tip is very helpful.[:D][8D]
Don Gibson,
Thanks for those coupler references! [:D][8D] As I’ve said before all of you guys make this forum a very valueable resource and tool.
I’m printing this thread and will refer to it as I work on the locomotives, Rivorossi and Walthers cars. [C):-)]
We KNOW Athearn loco’s coupler pockets tend toward the low. Do we bring the Budd couplers DOWN to the Athearns, (2) the Athearn’s UP to the Budd cars, or (3) bring both into compliance with Kadee coupler guage?
I might suggest that (3) is the answer for all Engine’s and passenger head-end car’s, since that is where connections and disconnections are made. If you want to go further, you can.
I cannot tell you what # couplers to use, since there is variances from model to model, and I have OFTEN found the two ends of the same passenger car to even be different. I prefer to get coupler heights as close as possible before shimmying bolsters. With long passenger cars when you raise up one end the other end drops.
I CAN tell you Kadee 30’s and 40’s do it for me, I keep at least one of each in stock at all times and incidentally, Kadee’s recommendations are for 22" radius curves.
My 30’s are used for Rivarossi and ConCor Passenger cars - as I said - they provide dual heights. Budd cars I have yet to do - but I have whatever I will need.
One thing I won’t do is overcorrect them to match up with an incorrect height.