The CP purchased three E-units for Montreal to USA service. I remember that they were ordered as E7’s, but that production ended and E8’s were supplied. Were those train destined to Boston or New York City?
Did the Canadian government allow the CP to purchase USA locomotives due to an international pool? Didn’t the BM and MEC participate in that pool also.
Ed Burns
Canadian railroads were always able to purchase American-built locomotives, but would pay steep tariffs to do so.
You are correct that these units were purchased as CP’s contribution to dieselizing the Montreal-Boston passenger trains they jointly operated with B&M.
CP’s three E-units were built before the GMD London plant opened. CN had also acquired a small number of EMD units that were built at La Grange.
As built CP 1800-1802 wore a unique paint scheme that was not applied to any other CPR diesels:
https://www.trains.com/ctr/photos-videos/photo-of-the-day/canadian-pacific-e8-with-the-alouette/
The three CP E8s were purcased specifically for Boston - Montreal service for the Red Wing (overnight. with Pullman sleepers) and Allouette (day) in a pool with B&M E-7s and the one B&M E-8.
Exactly. Nothing stopped Canadian railways from purchasing stuff from the US, but import duties financially incentivized built-in-Canada. That changed with NAFTA.
Customs and import is also why CP had those Pullman-Standard built boxcars with “International of Maine” lettering and later the “international” CPAA reporting marks. These were US cars, acquired in the US and not imported to Canada. Under customs/import rules these were American cars, and handled the same as cars from US domestic railways.
The Alouette headed for Boston at Concord, NH, Spring 1950 or 1951:
And here it is headed to Montreal, also at Concordm N. H.
Did EMD and GMD just eat the loss on the import duties when building an order for customers on the other side of the border?
As an example, I think BC Hydro’s SD38-2’s were built in La Grange (Which despite being a normally aspirated version of the SD40-2, was different enough where London didn’t want to retool for such a small order at a time when they were clogged with orders). Same with their MP15DC’s.
And there’s the well known example of La Grange building 30 SD40-2’s in 1972 for CPR when London was flooded with orders and then GMD building 85 SD40-2’s for the Burlington Northern during 1979/1980 when EMD was extremely busy.
Seems unlikely to me that a customer like Canadian Pacific would pay hefty import duties instead of waiting. So are these examples of each builder wanting to keep their customers happy, with the builder outsourcing the order and paying the duties themselves?
Or were the customers desperate enough for power to come online quickly that they paid the premium price to import from across the border rather than wait until the domestic builder could handle the order?
Because the E-8s original assignment was on international trains, they may have been considered part of CP’s American lines (Newport (VT) Division and IofM) and thus not formally imported and subject to duties. Then a year or so later import them as “used” locomotives with duties assessed on a depreciated value. But this is mere speculation on my part.
If I remember correctly, the US and Canada had an agreement that locomotives that stayed for less than 24 hours in the “other” country before returning to its home country would not be subject to tariffs. So EMD probably delivered the locos to one of CP’s US subsidiaries and in operation they stayed less than a day in Canada (unload passengers, refuel, add steam generator water, check oil levels, make running repairs, board passengers) before coming south headed for Boston with either that day’s return trip or the next morning’s run. In and out in less than 24 hours. If there were serious mechanical problems that would extend the stay, there was probably an exception to make provision for that or they were deadheaded back to US soil.
CP E8s.
CP E8s were used in Excursion Service to out of the way places as required.
Here are CP 1800-8705 on a trip to Grand Mere, Quebec to view a
Total Eclipse of the Sun, July 20, 1963.
https://www.nfb.ca/film/eclipse-at-grandmere/
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6141992,-72.6812112,3501m/data=!3m1!1e3
Thank You.
Does Grand Mere still have rail service? I wan’t able to see evidence of any tracks from the Google Maps link.
Grand’Mere.
Was last in GM in 1966 and the station was still there,
also an Air Operated Turntable, the Station located here
as in Marching Band meeting Train on B&W Film.
The track once went beyond the station to serve this Industry, but is severed South of here.
This line went further South, crossing bridges, down to present line still in use.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6062587,-72.6854403,301m/data=!3m1!1e3
It’s interesting that the Boston-Montreal overnight “Redwing” included both Pullman and CPR operated
sleeping cars. Pullman passengers could avail themselves of the food and beverage service in the CPR operated “Cape” series sleeper lounges.