I couldn’t sleep, so I was catching up on postings on some Canadian forums. One thing that nobody has seemed to twig to yet, but is about to rear its’ ugly head, is that Crude Oil and Ethanol trains that run from the ND area north over the top of Lake Superior and on over to the D&H on their way to wherever in NJ, are going to be hung up by this accident. I think we will be hearing more about that soon.
Bruce
And that simply isn’t correct. What makes you think that?
I don’t even have to look beyond a half hour’s driving distance in rural Upstate NY to find multiple examples built later than 1930. The aluminum railway bridges in Massena NY for instance.
Less then half of the Albany, NY bound trains go over the top, more than half go via Chicago and Detroit. North Dakota produces only limited amounts of Ethanol(only one plant on CP that I know of), The majority comes off the former IC&E, next most off the DM&E.
Thanks. I wasn’t entirely sure about the ethanol. But almost half of the Albany bound crude oil trains seem like a lot. You would think there might be more news on this to come.
Do you have any more news on detour routes to share?
Bruce
Let’s just say I was skeptical about this - kind of like elephants flying, OK ? [:-^] But yes, it’s true ! (partially, at least - only 1 span of the bridge was fabricated from aluminum) See the following references and links:
“ALUMINUM ALLOYS FOR BRIDGES AND BRIDGE DECKS” - http://www.secat.net/includes/open.php?id=9 - page 62 (2 of 12), right column near the bottom; also, Table 1 on page 64 (4 of 12) (approx. 348 KB ‘PDF’ format file size);
“Opportunities for the use of Aluminum in Vehicular Bridge Construction” - bottom of page 2 of 19 (approx. 1.20 MB ‘PDF’ format file size) - http://www.thealuminiumdialog.com/en/blog/aluminium-has-its-place-in-all-road-infrastructures then
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/3/2/7932.1336937249.jpg (not my photo) - It appears to me that the span in the middle without any rust is the aluminum one, but I have no data or citation to support that speculation on my part.
Pictured is indeed the bridge over the Grass River just in case you weren’t sure. Next to it is the bridge it replaced decades ago that now serves as a footbridge and is the only one of the original bridges left (Although the abutments and piers still exist for the Racquette River bridge).
It was my understanding that the entire metal structure of the Massena Terminal Alcoa bridge across the Racquette, their span over East Hatfield Street, their span above Route 37, their span over East Orvis Street, their span over the Grass River, Massena Center Road, and the Massena Power Canal were of aluminum construction done as a promotion for aluminum bridge construction that apparently never caught on (Although there are other examples). They date from when they rebuilt their line for grade separation requiring realignment of the line, new bridges, and several bridges over roads where there previously had just been a grade crossing.
Surprised to hear otherwise.
Either way, here are several examples of post 1930 railroad bridge construction in New York State.
If, like me, you were wondering how they were going to recover those two containers that floated down the Wahnapitae River away from the collapsed bridge, here is a photo of how it was done:
http://mynews.ctvnews.ca/mediadetails/11556439
Bruce
Where was the crane sitting ? It had to be “boomed out” quite a distance, since it’s not visible anyplace in the photo - hence, it had to be a pretty big one to lift those containers (even if empty, there had to be at least some water in them . . . ).
I’m pretty sure they had to use a helicopter. There is simply no land access there. No doubt one of those big two rotor models. And I’m sure it had to come a great distance, since it took a week before the containers were removed.
Bruce
It seems that the quick fix will be to bring in a pair of 2nd hand DPG spans recovered from abandoned lines somewhere, about 80’ long, to bridge the gap left by the collapsed truss. So obviously a pier will be built in the river. I don’t know whether this is also the permanent solution. The bottom of the DPGs will be lower than the bottom of the truss which will reduce the hydraulic opening, a possible concern for river flow (and boaters) during periods of very high water.
John
What’s a C.P.R. train doing up in Canada? ? ?
The State of Washington has reopened the Skagit River bridge on I-5 that collapsed on May 23. Where does the CP stand in having a replacement span in place for this bridge?
The bridge that was destroyed was a 150’ though truss bridge. The plan seems to be to replace it with two 60’ plate girder bridges requiring a new middle pier in the river and more fill. The last I heard of this was a picture of one of the 60’ bridges sitting on a flat car at the site. That would be late last week.
Bruce
I am currently watching ‘Big Brain Theory’ on Discovery Channel - a engineering contest show where two teams of youthful engineers are given a task that requires a workable engineering solution.
My observation (from very far a far), is that Washington State took the simplest and most straight forward solution to their problem. It appears the CP is taking the more complex, and it appears, time consuming solutuon to their problem.
Time is money!
cx500 has outlined some difficulties with this solution earlier in this thread. I’ve seen where using one of his alternate personalities on a Canadian forum, that these same difficulties may be rearing their ugly head. I suspect all of the “stuff” they are going to need for this repair may be sitting on flatcars for a while.
Bruce
True, the I-5 bridge is back up. But would the same type of bridge hold railroad axle loads?
The application each bridge is designed for is a given - a highway bridge is not designed for rail axle loadings. PERIOD! Rail bridges and their design is one of the reasons a MofW Department exists on the railroads.
How much CP values the line this bridge is a part of can be deduced by how much effort is being expended to repair/replace the bridge in the least amount of time. The clock is ticking.
Also once stopped the bearing can “freeze” up to where it no longer turns. If moved, the bearing on the other side will turn and twist the frozen bearing off. When checking a bearing, we’re allowed to pull the bearing in question up to the condr except when the car would go over a switch or is on concrete ties because of this.
There have been a few cases in my area where the hot box detector failed to detect a hot bearing. Most ended in derailments. One took out a control point and crossover about 2 1/2 miles past the detector after getting a no defects message.
Jeff
Balt,
My point was that there are temporary highway bridges that are owned by several companies, but I don’t think there are any quick temporary rail bridges…I could be wrong.
As branch lines were abandoned over the years bridges were removed and saved. That is where the two 60’ bridges I mentioned earlier came from. The thing here is, the bridge that was wiped out was a single 150’ through truss bridge built in 1906. I guess it was determined right away that replacing that bridge with the same type of structure was off the chart expensive. In relative dollars, steel is actually cheaper now that it was a century ago, but labour and soft costs are a whole other frightening thing. Using a truss design would eliminate the need for a middle pier, but it might take longer.
From what I have heard a lot of these issues are still under debate. As well as needing new government approvals, if they go with the plate girder option as the permanent solution.
Bruce
