Yesterday’s newswire about the first of these being shipped states that the program has been cut drastically. Not a shock with the new management since decisions like this should’ve been expected, but just how cut is the program? Is it down to just these 20 units from the original 350? Or is this just the initial order expected to be delivered this year?
Any effect on the Geep program?
Are these rebuilds, they look sort of dated? if rebuilds, are the all older locos from CP or do they purchase locos from around and resell them?
These are remanufactured SD40-2s reusing the frame, trucks, parts of the long hood, etc. They use a new 12-cylinder 710-ECO diesel rated at 3000hp. The cores were CP SD40-2s though one was built new for KCS and used by them for a 15-year lease, KCS chose not to renew the lease and CP picked up the batch. The first batch was 25 core locomotives sent to Progress Rail in Kentucky for remanufacturing, but follow on batches could be cut or eliminated.
BTW - These are SD30C-ECOs with reduced horsepower, rather than SD32ECOs which would have required much larger radiators. These look like snoot nosed SD45s.
I thought these CPR units had an all new body? But after your post I found a few pictures of these early units and it indeed looks like they reused the long hood. Does that mean that their cowl units slated for the program, assuming it continues, might retain their cowl?
Earlier SD32ECO’s didn’t need fancy radiators like the units for Kansas City Southern. I know Union Pacific’s SD60 cores went above and beyond to meet increased requirements for California, but why the change now? Increased EPA regulations since the earlier units (Which I believe Canadian lines have agreed to honor)?
http://kcsdem.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/sany0151.jpg.w560h416.jpg
The KCS locomotives are SD22ECOs with the 8-cylinder version of the 710ECO and are intended to be the modern equivalent of an SD39.
If that’s the case, my mistake. But the source labeled it as a SD32ECO in the photo caption.
But how about BNSF’s three SD32ECO’s then? Those are definitely SD32ECO’s and they retain the radiator system from the core units used. No flared radiators here.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3406303
Yes, but a SD45-2 already had a bigger radiator than a SD40-2, and the BNSF trio have been remanufactured from SD45-2s.
So a compact by comparison radiator system designed 40 years ago can support 3200 HP (Actually 3150HP I think, isn’t it?) but the much larger flared radiator system on CPR’s version had to be derated by 150HP since it didn’t have adequate cooling capacity to support the full power capabilities?
That doesn’t sound correct. I suspect that CPR is simply matching the horsepower of their other common EMD road switchers with these by going with 2,000 and 3,000 HP for the two models.
Canadian Railway Observations, a good source of news on Canadian locomotives, now doesn’t have free access despite claims that each month’s issue would be free to access once the new issue was posted,.So I haven’t been keeping up to date with CPR’s Eco program due to not being a subscriber.
Does anyone know if there will be further deliveries this year of SD32Eco’s for CPR?
Well, I’ve run the GP20ECOs quite a bit recently and I have mixed opinions about them.
Ergonomically, they are comfortable with the big new cab and, strange in Canada, A/C. Nice during warm weather. During winter, well they are COLD. Not because the heaters are not good but because they shut down for fuel conservation. These locomotives are equipped with a boiler that circulates coolant much like a block heater in your car does. Don’t leave any food or water in the cab or it will freeze. As expected these add on boilers are failing already. I think by next winter they will not be working at all.
As per usual this day and age, the components are made by the lowest bidder. The seats look great and should be much more comfortable, but they are broken already. Also they don’t fit properly on their rails so when you turn, the chair dents the wall.
It seems for me, my line of sight is blocked by a pillar that supports the roof so I need to lean over a bit to see out the front window.
Electronic control. Hmmm, well its been around for a while with the ACs, and now its at the switcher level. Still, to this day, I find the electronic control for the brakes and throttle to be less responsive than the mechanical systems from GP38s etc. The computer software is based on Windows XP (not supported by Microsoft). To find out if a traction motor is cutout you need to navigate though a couple of menus to find the traction motor screen. Its not as obvious as the older power where a indicator light would be illuminated on the back panel when a traction motor was cut out.
Obviously, there is acknowledgment by the builders that slow responsiveness would be an issue while switching. There is a Switch/Road switch on the control panel that, if placed in the Switch position, will keep the engine at throttle 4 at all times. The theory being, during flat switching, the loco would load quicker since the engine is already at throttle 4. In practice I did not see too much of a difference
My understanding is that the 12-710G ECO is only 3000 HP into the alternator.
The second digit in the model number refers to the Tier compliance of the rebuilt locomotive.
The BNSF locomotives are Tier 2, the CP locomotives are Tier 0, which is the minimum compliance for rebuilt locomotives.
M636C
Larger radiators mean the prime mover runs cooler, and more cleanly and efficiently.
So does anyone know if CPR is getting any SD’s this year?
At least some are rated at 3,150 HP hence the SD32ECO designation. Same with the 2,150 HP GP22ECO and SD22ECO. They’re rounding up the horsepower rather than reflecting that it’s Tier 2 compliant.
I believe that the BNSF and UP SD Eco repowers are some such examples for the full 3,150 HP.
http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/pdf/EMD_710ECO_Repower_Solutions.pdf
Leo,
If you look carefully at page 2 of the linked EMD document, you will observe that it quotes BRAKE horsepower, which does not allow for deductions for auxiliaries, rather than input to the alternator, which is the figure that EMD quotes for complete locomotives.
This is correct for a brochure offering engines for repowering locomotives, since the parasitic losses will change from unit to unit depending upon the air compressor and cooling system fitted.
As a result I assume that the input to the alternator is likely to be similar to existing units with 8 or 12-710G3B engines. In the case of JT42C locomotives with electric air compressors, this is 3030 HP.
M636C
I thought BHP was the figure after things like transmission loss, dedications for the auxiliaries, etc. Sorry about that.
CP would have been better off to buy new instead of running these sketchy rebuilts.
It sort of amazes me that CP is so power short. A few weeks ago I was at a C&NWHS meet in La Crosse, WI. It was mentioned that CP had about 100 of their 4400 hp GE’s on lease to BNSF, and now they are cutting their 710ECO program(rumored for months). As we watched one or two locomotive trains craw by, it was apparent that they were underpowered.
I understand the business need to cut costs, but the locomotive fleet they have is getting older, and they are pushing the limit right now - Just wait until next winter when they are annulling trains due to a lack of motive power.
Jim
Now that they’re profitability is much improved maybe they can put an order in for some new locomotives. In the meantime keep the SD40-2 fleet running without rebuilding it…just keep them running for another 24 months until the new power arrives. CP is SD40 savy… their mechanics and crews have been working on them for 45 years now and rebuilding them into something new that no one understands makes no sense whatsoever.
In less than 12 months the EPA’s Tier 4 regulations take effect. CN and NS are so concerned about the likely teething troubles with the new locomotives that they went out and acquired a lot of second-hand power to tide themselves over for 2015 and maybe 2016. CP will likely recall their power leased to BNSF for their possibly increased power needs. Then again CP may not need more power next year.
Ulrich, why do you feel the ECO locomotives are sketchy? Railroaders like to complain about their locomotives, they will always find something to dislike. There is very few used parts incorporated into the GP20C-ECO and SD30C-ECO locomotives, and none of them are related to the engine, electrical, or electronic control systems.
I don’t know first hand if they’re up to snuff or not, but CPtrainman is usually objective in his postings, and I’m going by that. Apart from the engines themselves, the whole idea of rebuilding old locomotives when the newer ones are so much better (and NEW right to the frame) doesn’t make much sense, especially when the railroad has the financial wherewithal to upgrade to the latest greatest technology. It would be like me having my 12 year old Toyota Sienna van rebuilt and rewired instead of getting rid of it and buying a 2015 model. Rebuilt is still rebuilt, not new.