That explains seeing people congregating on the open platforms in those old photos?
Reminds me of the old submariners lymric describing preWW2 pigboats…
Submarines have no latrines
so the old salts often told
they’d hang their tails between the rails
and cry “Oh that waters cold!”
Outside appearances can be deceiving. The Conrail-operated Chicago-Valparaiso suburban locals looked pretty hideous from the outside (2 GP7’s and either 4 or 8 P70 coaches) but the interiors were clean and fairly well maintained.
Peter:
The old GM&O F3 with 3 coaches would be an old GM&O train, now referred to by Metra as Heritage line. The IC electrics went from the far south suburbs (Homewood), (University Park) via the lakeshore into downtown Chicago. THese were and are electrics. The two lines never merged. I don’t think any true IC equipment went into service on Chicago-St Louis trains, that operated out of Union Station. funny, but I can remember getting on a run to Springfield IL in a dome car. Most of the train was GM&O red.
{Probably the worst trains were those in the South still suffering from bad old equipment from the Jim Crow laws.
i cringe every time I see a Bachmann christmas set with the combine set up in the wrong way. Please don’t put the baggage section in between the coaches.
The PennCentral locals were a joke. An E8 and a coach, might as well have rode the bus.
~METRO
I too am too young to remember the pre-amtrak era, I am older than Amtrak by 55 days. I have heard and read lots of stories about that era and can see how Grehound and, in those days, Trailways packed them on. Makes me wonder though, how could Greyhound put more people on today than Amtrak. Amtrak crews are generally friendlier and customer service better
anyone out there ride the el lake cities?i heard it was awful.
I have ridden on all the Erie trains, including the Lake Cities. All were clean and comfortable, but none of them were in any way elegant or luxurious. They certainly don’t deserve to be called “awful.” Erie’s New York to Chicago route provided basic no frills passenger service to smaller cities and towns. They weren’t the Century or the Broadway, but the LC and her sisters were welcomed and appreciated in all the communities they served. My hometown, Jamestown, NY, had six Erie trains daily. If they were still running, Jamestowners would still ride them, just as they did a generation ago.
I posted this before on another thread. I’ve ridden the Heritage coaches and Amfleet II. Not saying this out of sentimentality but as far as space and riding comfort, IMHO, the Heritage coaches beat Amleet II by a long shot. Riding over CSX rails on the east coast between Washington D.C and Florida, Amfleet IIs bounce like New York City subway cars. The heavier Heritage coaches were great at rocking you gently to sleep. I sure do miss them!
Smitten with the 'Romance of the Rails", as a young soldier I took a Kansas City Southern train from Alexandria, LA to KC MO in 1966. The car heaters were blasting hot (in summer!), the toilets were overflowing, we spent lots of time going backward. The love affair was over by the time I staggered into the KC station.
Hope you don’t mind the addition of a commuter train- the infamous “Rocket” of the NY, NH, & H RR. It wasn’t a train- it was a very tired Budd car that went from Old Saybrook in Connecticut to New Haven, with local stops. In the evening it would slowly make it’s way back to Old Saybrook. Only a died in the wool railfan like my father would ride it, and the NH killed it off shortly before the PC merger. It’s nickname was the “rattler”- a pretty apt description of the ride. No amenities on board except a seat.
I understand Metro North now runs three trains daily along the Shore Line route from New Haven to Old Saybrook and back- electric trains- pretty amazing.
Erik
For someone who’s not old enough to remember pre-Amtrak passenger trains, I find this thread enlightening on rail travel in the sixties. Some railroads cared about their passenger trains, and the rest could care less.
Just wondering, but what is the dreaded “Russellburger” served on SP trains? I’m guessing it’s one of those nasty microwaved hamburgers named in “honor” of DJ Russell that turns soggy when heated, and tastes like cardboard. [xx(][xx(]
Or perhaps cardboard is too nice a description. [:p]
You’re right on all counts, and keeping in mind the tiny tots (this IS a family forum!) cardboard is indeed too nice a description for the texture, substance, taste, smell, composition, etc., of a Russellburger.[dinner][xx(]
Russelburgers[dinner][xx(][:(!]The #1 reason that the SP Automat was the worst idea ever in the history of railroad dining[:(!][B)][xx(]!
Followed later by the succulent offerings of the Amtrak Turbo Cafe. You could tell how long the sandwiches had been on-board as the cornedbeef turned from red to multi-colored glow-in-the-dark greens and yellows. We used to say that the sandwiches were acquiring seniority. Once during a food poisoning scandel with Amtrak’s sandwich providers teams of FDA folk would make spot checks of items in the Cafe. This was during the spring of '78. I was conductor on 335, the 4.30pm Turbo to Milwaukee. I was helping someone onto the train about 4.26pm with only 4 minutes to go. I passed through the cafe to go back on the ground when I noticed a youthful, but officius FDA person sticking a thermometer in all the hot dogs. I reminded her that she had better prepare to exit the train or she would be going with us. She replied, “This train will not leave until I inspect all the food.” I replied that I wasn’t about to tie up the entire afternoon rush hour while she gave a physical to all the weinies. She gave me a stern look as I departed, went to the platform and promptly, although a tad early, yelled, “BOOOOoaaaaaaaaarDDD!” My brakeman, and good friend Eddie, took the cue and sounded his giant gym-teacher whistle that we had been using on an experimental basis to urge the crowds onboard for departure. The inspector came flying out of the train with her thermometer in hand. I looked at her and I said, “Got done, did ya?” and with that we departed.
Mitch
I’ll probably make some errors regarding the particulars, but please bear with me…
As a wee lad in about 1960, my grandmother took me via rail from Salem Oregon to Klamath Falls Oregon to visit relatives.
The first/southbound leg of the trip was aboard the southbound SP “Daylight”, I think. Modern train of the era, wonderful trip. I remember many of the details, the wonderful cars, etc. What I have later learned was exceptional service by the train crew.
The return (one week later) trip was aboard a series of what were probably “locals” or second class passenger service on SP. The trip seemed to take forever. I recall even today the decrepit condition of the cars, what I now know to be vintage (then) heavyweight equipment. I remember vividly sitting for what seemed like hours…on sidings…waiting. It was summer, and even to a child it was so hot on the return trip. Air conditioning…nada!
The moral is, pre-Amtrak, the quality of passenger service, good or bad, was the result of what the respective railroad did (or didn’t) care to provide, in many cases.
In the Pacific Northwest we have somewhat the same today. Amtrak “Cascades” service, bankrolled by the states of Washington and Oregon, operated by Amtrak, is generally quite qood. On the other hand, Amtrak’s Coast Starlight, is…variable. In general, the on-board crew tries their best. However, aging Amfleet equipment takes its toll…uncle pete throws a few monkey wrenches in during the Starlight’s travels in the Golden State…and the weather in the Pacific Northwest. But I’m wandering off topic…
SR’s Ponce De Leon…or any train w/ Jim Crow seating. MCF
And what about the New Haven? Or Burlington discontinuing a train in the middle of a run? The deified Southern Railway with St. Graham of Claytor truncating trains to run from nowhere to nowhere in order to eventually get a train off petition approved.
Anyone remember the sit-down strikes in front of PC#31 at Altoona. Disgruntled passengers balked at continuing journey on account of AC and other problems, police called. Happened around 1969.
But one astute poster wished they had those memories…that’s the best comment in this string.
Actually, there are quite a few which might meet this criteria. In the book Slow Train to Yesterday the author describes any number of trains that could vie for this title.
Try “To Hell in a Day Coach” by Peter Lyon. Still available at many libraries. Has an excellent analysis of what went on.
No offense, but why anyone would desire to have memories of the sometimes almost brutal mistreatment of pax at the hands of some of the RR companies, etc. is beyond me–sorta like wanting to cheri***hat bad case of the flu, or having your tonsils out[banghead][banghead]
With regard to that cultural tragedy known as Jim Crow (see the Ponce de Leon comment above), let’s don’t blame the RRs for that. There’s plenty enough to blame 'em for that’s legitimate! Where racial segregation was official policy, it was required by state law or enforced by Federal fiat, upheld by the USSC in Plessy v. Ferguson in 1908 (I think I got the date right), and the railroads were subject to civil and criminal penalties if they didn’t enforce it. This actually put a legal burden on the RRs that they didn’t want and shouldn’t have had–that of being cops on top of everything else they did. For the benefit of the readers who weren’t around (and this is not an apology for the practice–it was abhorrent and we all would have been better off had it never happened, but it did) the lightweight divided chair cars did attempt to provide equivalent facilities, and the seating, upholstery, luggage racks, decor, restrooms, etc. were exactly equivalent in the car, with many cars having the divider movable so that it could be adjusted with load. A seat occupied by a caucasian on one trip could easily wind up on the segregated end of the car on the next, and vice versa, and if you were a passenger of any race, you never would know that just from looking when you boarded and rode. The junk equipment that got used for the purpose is another issue altogether, and was indeed inexcusable, as was the not-separate-but-still-equal abysmally crummy (how’s THAT for repetitive redundancy!!) treatment most of them gave the traveling public from the early '50’s on, and sometimes even before.
And i
All complaints about SP’s Automat cars should be tempered by the fact that dining car prices were pretty steep and while the dining-car experience is something that we all wax nostalgic about, SP realized that the passengers it still had weren’t eating in the diner because of the prices and it was trying to get some meal revenue by providing a service to fit the market.
Remember, if nobody’s eating in a full-service dining car, what’s the point of including it in the consist if a snack bar or automat car in its place would be used.