I am planning to build a new layout which would have a river modeled along one edge of the layout. It would be about 12 inches wide and spanned by several bridges, similar to the prototype. Since the river would be on the edge of the layout, the framework support for it would essentially cantilever out from the main layout. The length of the river would be about 10 feet along the edge of the layout.
The main surface of the layout would be 1/2" plywood on 2" x 4" framework. The river bed would be submerged 2 inches below the plywood surface.
I keep thinking about how best to support the river bed, but so far I cannot come up with a good construction method.
Do you intend there to be a river bank right at the edge of the layout, or is the water going to extend out to the edge – as if there was an unmodeled portion of the river that is actually wider than what you see?
Keep in mind that the edges of our layouts get more wear and tear. If you use a poured resin for your water, and if (as I have seen on some layouts) the water goes right to the edge, you need to have a very sturdy support to avoid getting cracks and chips. And you need to have even more than the normal amount of discipline to prevent operators and visitors from using the river surface as a place to put pencils, switchlists and soft drink cans.
There might be something to be said for having the river bank at the edge of the layout rather than a “parting of the water” effects.
Start with Paul’s suggestion. Then put two inch builders foam on the lowered plywood area. The top of the foam then becomes level with the top surface of the layout in the areas adjacent to it. Next, just carve the river and riverbank down into the foam.
I’ve had good luck using sheets of clear plastic to protect the edge. Either cut to conform to the terrain or a little higher. They can be attached under the layout to the support frame.
If I understand your question correctly I would advise using your cantilever support to near the edge and simply connecting the river bed under the main portion by underlapping using spacer blocks(or a continuous 2 x 2, etc) The 2 x 2 combined with the 1/2 plywood base will get you close to your 2" drop.
I feel that your plan to ‘submerge’ the riverbed up to a couple of inches below the mean surface of the layout is a bit ill advised. The reason is that you needn’t really do it, and if you find you erred as you create the water level fill, and need to add more ‘water’ to bring it up to a reasonable/realistic looking level, you will add greatly to your costs for the volume you contemplate over the length you describe. Model water compounds ain’t cheap!
Secondly, it is entirely likely that, for realism, you will create a roadbed, and then have to lay track atop that, complete with a profiled ballast. This will add to the height disparity between your ‘water’ surface and any conveying structure over the water.
What I would do is to extend the width of the main board so that it can serve as either a support for, or the actual, river bottom. Place 1-2" of extruded foam as a working base glued to the board, and gouge out what you feel you need for a river bed, or simply cut off the edge of the foam what you don’t want to gouge. Use a wire brush to do the rough gouging.
For the edge, apply painter’s masking tape, green side out, to the side of a strip of lath. Screw the lath to the side of the board so that the tape’s lower level is below the top of the river bottom (i.e., hidden from view between the lath and the top of the board/river bottom, pinched between them). Then, use silicon sealant to seal the corners and along the bottom of the lath and top of the board where it seems obvious to do so. Pour two or three thin layers of your water compound AFTER you have painted the river bottom with shades to simulate depth variances. Later, when the top layer has cured, apply a thin layer of gel gloss medium and stipple it with the side of the same applicator brush…a foam one works well. When that topping dries, you will have natural ripples.
Rich, why not build the river supports as part of the layout, rather than as an add-on? My layout is 1"x4" open grid, with the track, structures, and whatever else requires it, elevated on risers. Where there are a significant number of structures, there may be a platform of plywood, elevated on risers where necessary. For water areas, I simple screwed plywood directly to the top of the open grid framework.
The grid is a separate assembly, distinct from its supporting structure, so it extends as far into the aisle-way as necessary and is screwed to the support structure, the edges of which are recessed from the layout edge to varying degrees, as illustrated by the photo below.
Since the support structure (mostly 2"x4", with a plywood-topped shelf 6" above the floor) is affixed to the walls, and the layout grid attached to it, the overhang can easily be a foot or more, yet still remain sturdy. While I don’t have a river along the edge of the layout, I do have several that terminate at the edge, two of which can be seen in the photo above.
This is the only area not yet covered by scenery, but shows most of the construction details:
Here’s a view of one of the rivers during the long dry spell which prevailed in the early stages of scenery-making. The riverbed is 3/8" sheathing plywood, screwed directly to the tops of the 1"x4" grid, and will easily support my weight:
I did just what I think your planing to do. I have a river flowing into a harbor. The river is coming from mid layout and flowing into the harbor which is on the outer edge of the layout. As you can see the yard tracks on the right are up on risers about 4" the harbor and river are 2" lower than the rest of the layout. The river and the harbor floors are made from 1/8" hard board supported by 1x2" joist ,with no risers. Then I used a 1x5" board screwed to the 1x2 joist raised enough so as when the water gets pored it won’t overflow. Also in front of that is a strip of plexiglass also higher than the 1x5 board to show a little dept.
Hope this helps a little. Not a very good picture but it will give you some kind of an idea of what I did.
Based upon all of these ideas and suggestions, here is what I am thinking of doing. There will be an opposite river bank to support the other end of the bridges. So, the entire river bed will be submerged with raised banks on either side.
What I am contemplating is to switch from 2" x 4" end frame members to 1" x 6" end frame members. Since a 1" x 6" actually measures 3/4" x 5 1/2", I can cut out the top 2 1/2 inches from the extended portion of the end frame member for the river bed. Then I can insert a piece of 1/2" plywood to the submerged portion to support the river bed. That will leave the river bed 2 inches below the top of the surface of the layout.
Since the width of the surface portion of the layout will be 5 feet (accessible from either side) where the river will be located along the edge of the layout, the length of the end frame members will be 6 feet instead of 5 feet, and that final 1 foot will be cut down from 5 1/2 inches to 2 inches. I will probably need to add side support on those end frame members to support the cut out portion.
This is not a river but my lake edge would appear to be similar. My layout is joist on “C” beams and track on risers. The lake bed sits flat on the joists. My joists extend past the “C” beam about a foot, so that I don’t bump into the table legs. I used a 1 1/2 inch plastic fence along the edge of the layout any place the track is close to the edge in case an errant engine might escape the table and hit the floor. The plastic fence is hardly visible in the picture.
Good luck.
Lee
Site must be busy, it wouldn’t let me edit this post at first so I posted the picture in separate post.
Same here, although I found that if you keep at it, the level of water on the floor will continue to rise until it’s equal to that which you require on the layout. The main downside is that it makes it difficult to troubleshoot under-layout wiring problems. [swg][(-D]
While I use Magic Water resin for small rivers cascading to the edge of the layout, the use of resin for two large harbors would have been too expensive, So I used door plastic with a random pattern to create two harbors. You cut the plastic by scribing and snapping straight edges,(which are hidden by the bank of the harbor) I painted the smooth side of the plastic a dark blueish green. The small varied random pattern of the top surface glistens like real water.Click on photo to enlarge it. Then, click on “Slideshow” to view other parts of my 24’x24’ (around the room)layout. Bob Hahn
Don’t forget, guys, that I plan to have an opposite bank to the river on the outer edge of the layout. This opposite bank will be raised to the level of the main layout, so the river will be contained without spilling over the side of the layout.
Thats what the Acrylic fence is for, to keep the Realistic warter in place and to give me peace of mind, that the locos won’t excape. [swg]
Lee
Same here, although I found that if you keep at it, the level of water on the floor will continue to rise until it’s equal to that which you require on the layout. The main downside is that it makes it difficult to troubleshoot under-layout wiring problems.
I have a river running along the edge of my layout for about 15 feet and eventually it ‘empties’ into a harbor scene. I don’t have the finished water on yet just the basic color. I am in the process of finishing the facia boards along the edge of the layout. I am trying to represent the Hudson River in New York where the ‘Water Level Route’ of the 20th Centruy Limited ran as I remember as a boy. I think I will acheive the results I am looking for when finished. My water is 1/2-3/4 plywood mounted to the layout framework.
