What’s changed that makes this such a big issue now? Trains and railroaders have been around for almost 200 years… Have schedules become tighter and more erratic? First time I heard of train crew fatigue was in 1986, after the head-on in Hinton, AB where (as I understand it) two engineers, two brakeman and a fireman were all asleep… i.e. clear view for miles… no brakes applied prior to the collision. Not much about fatigue in the trade press as I recall either… Now, I’m not talking about changing work rules surrounding changes like using beltpacks and questions of safety as distinct from fatigue.
Huge difference between having 2-3 men on the ground doing work, vs. having just one person by himself doing it all. Just the walking alone…
Then there’s the issue of “digital eye strain” from all the monitors engines have now.
One of the Trains magazines some time back contained an account of an engineer who was asleep yet managed to blow for every crossing nonetheless.
That was the purpose of telling the story, but the fact that the engineer was asleep is also significant.
Seems like it was early Diesel era.
At Dalehurst the crew at fault consisted of a Engineer, one Brakeman (on the head end) and a Conductor (on the caboose). The passenger crew was operating on clear signals and were not at fault.
I can only speak for CN, but fatigue has always been an issue, and for many years it was swept under the rug and was not formally addressed. As was noted crews were larger in the past, and if the operation went smoothly on a through train (one without any switching) not all of them were really needed. So if you came to work tired it was possible, though officially against the rules, to catch a nap while on duty. Management was also more tolerant of employees missing calls to work (especially in the pre-cellphone era), booking sick or booking unfit.
Then things started to change. Crew size was reduced, eliminating many of the opportunities to slack off while on duty. Hunter Harrison arrived, and management started cracking down on employees who missed calls or booked off. The company actually removed “unfit” as a status from the computer system , and refused to allow employees to book off for that reason (it was reinstated a couple years ago, but is still frowned upon). Supervisors stepped up their harrassment of train crews, and would go out to sidings and sneak onto stop
I remember reading that, as I recall this particular case was on C&NW commuter trains in and around Chicago during the 1960s.
Similar stories abound, including those of freight Conductors who spend most of their run fast asleep, only to awaken at just the right time to see and call important signals on the radio.
Not fatigue-related, but another form of engineer conduct, but not involving safety:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/judge-orders-union-pacific-to-rehire-enginner-who-defecated-on-train
This is a little off the topic of this thread.
Does alcohol play any part in any of the this? I think that drug tests would catch marijuana usage even after a long period, but not alcohol.
I know a respected commercial pilot who is an alcoholic. I asked him if he ever flew drunk, and he said that he had not. He had, however, missed flights after drinking too much, sometimes in airport lounges. He no longer drinks.
If a pilot has an alcohol problem, he is prohibited from flying. That discourages co-pilots and others from reporting the drunk pilot because they like him and don’t want him to lose his job.
Is there any similar issue with engineers and conductors, and what do the railroads do to prevent it?
Maybe in the “old days”, but not today. Most pilots want their coworkers to be alert and sober. Pilots don’t “like” other pilots. Airlines have so many pilots that two rarely fly together more than very occasionally. They are assigned at random. There is a purpose for that. They don’t become familiar with each other’s routine and maybe cut corners. Also, there isn’t any such term as “pilot” and “copilot”. They are “captain” and “first officer”. The captain makes the hard decisions (when to divert, etc.) but they normally have equal flying skill and rotate flying “legs”. In fact, the FO may have more time “in type” than the captain.
The airlines have very good treatment programs if you admit a problem voluntarily. They don’t want to lose all the money that they put into training you. If you show up at work drunk, it’s all over.
Thanks.
Sorry about misusing terms. I’ve probably watched too many movies.
I can only go by what my friend with 30 years in the cockpit, retired for 10 years, told me. I have no airline (or railroad) experience.
After retirement, my friend worked with the union in the alcohol treatment program working with other pilots. He said it was very difficult to get problem pilots to admit they had an issue and come for treatment. He also said that others were reluctant to report them if they had suspicions.
When I was still working - CSX supported ‘Operation Red Block’. Operation Red Block was a program where a employee - in any craft - could mark off when the knew their performance was impaired by drugs or alcohol. No other questions asked.
That being said, notation was made to the employee’s attendance record of the incident. Subsequent Red Block mark offs would have the company initiate a counciling program for the employee.
Employees working with the ‘affected’ employee also had the power to mark them off ‘Red Block’ when they reported for duty ‘under the influence’.
At one time ‘back in the day’ it was normal to think that railroaders needed three things - nicotene, caffeine and alcohol to keep things moving. In the present day of railroading two of those have been effectively removed. Caffeine is still used in coffee - mass quantities of coffee.
I don’t know of the Red Block program was continued after the arrival of EHH, train and engine crews did have their ‘legal napping’ rules eliminated by EHH’s arrival.
Pretty much been replaced my Monster energy drinks where I am. Even the bosses drink that stuff.
Sounds a bit like the Marine Corps when I was in. Back in those days without coffee, cigarettes, and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches the Corps would have ground to a halt!
Alchohol? Not on the job, ever. After hours, anything went!
Plenty of studies have been done over the years on sleep deprivation and fatigue in the workplace. Not sure why the science wouldn’t be front and center in determining the number of train crew needed and their scheduling. I understand that its complex with many variables to consider, but we put men on the moon over 50 years ago…surely by 2020 we should be able to schedule people to match workloads without anyone having to work in a chronically fatigued state. I generally prefer less government intervention, but here I see an important role for the government…to (on behalf of all of us) bring the latest science to the problem and to develop regulations accordingly that would apply to everyone involved in the trade. That’s more or less how it is in trucking… the rules, however imperfect they are, apply to all involved…same should be the case for railroads. There really should be no discussions about rest windows and such… the rules should be clear and enforceable by a third party if need be.
There are rules, but subject to interpretation. This stuff needs to be taken off the bargaining table.
As I see it, the railroads want the most they can wring out of their workers, even if it means said workers are working fatigued, etc.
And the union wants everyone to be working regular schedules, etc.
Clearly both can’t have it their way. Setting regulations that consider the science would probably mean neither side would get what they would like, but, because it would be directed, it would not be negotiable.
For unassigned railroaders, freight pool and extra boards, one of the biggest problems is trying to figure out when you’re going to work and get your sleep accordingly. Yes we have line ups, but they’re far from accurate. Even within a few hours it can be hard to tell. (The worst is watching a train that is at the point where they usually call the outbound and then they stop, sometimes for hours. Usually it seems like this happens at night. Especially those times you’ve had trouble sleeping that afternoon and are hoping to go to work ASAP.) I’ve watched my mark (the expected job and time) to fluctuate 12 hours, one way and then back the other. Sometimes jobs appear and disappear on the line ups. They are supposed to place deadheads on the line up at least 6 hours before they’re called. Still once in a while they pop up. Other times they appear a day in advance (our default line-up setting is 36 hours) and prompted, which means they activated to be called for the time indicated, and then they disappear.
Sometimes the problem isn’t enough time off (minimum 10 hours now), but too much time off. We’ve been alternating between 24 hours +/- to 50 hours +/- off. For me, 24 to 30 hours is ideal. When ever there was an incident, they always liked to throw out there that the crew members had X amount of time off. They don’t do that anymore, probably because someone realized that someone with a lot of time off between runs may have had their sleep “groove” thrown off. Which means, with time off one tends to fall back into a ‘normal’ sleep pattern. Sleeping at night, maybe for a couple of nights and then getting up in the morning and then seeing you’re mark is midnight that night.
A co-worker reminded me of something I said to him once when going to work in the wee hours of the morning. He asked me if I was rested. I told him, "The law says I am.&
A very good write-up by one of my co-workers in Edmonton:
[quote user=“Leslie Lukan”]
I am a railroader and I love many things about my job, however like every job there is a downside!
Less than 24 hours ago my brothers and sisters who work as conductors went on legal strike after the union and company could not reach a contract agreement.
Now many people may think these men and women are looking for higher wages, but the fact of the matter is we make enough money.
What many will tell you is that railroaders want to have the OPPORTUNITY to be home with our families.
A typical shift for me is about 32-36 hours. When I get home I can take between 8-24 hours off. I will typically go to work 3 times a week, so about 108 hours a week!
Some of my brothers and sisters after the same trip can only take 14 hours off to be at home!
Wow! Shocking! So they will be at home potentially less than 1/2 the time they are at work and work many more hours than me in a week!
Ask any of my coworkers and they will say I definitely work a lot less than the majority and I will still make close to six figures this year. Some of my colleagues will make almost double what I will make, because they can not take time off to be at home.
More money will not buy these men and women happiness, but time with their friends and family will bring than more joy and happiness!
A blessed life is not about your bank account, it’s about the experiences and the people you spend time with.
To learn more about my job and me check out the link below!
I should also note here that another factor not yet mentioned is the practice of calling crews in turnaround service at the away-from-home terminal. If you are called for such a turn you will be expected to work a additional shift of up to 12 hours, and then go off-duty again at the away-from-home terminal. Getting such a call will add another 20 hours onto your already long round trip, and there is no additional advance notice of when the company plans to call crews like that.
On CN we are relatively lucky in that we can only be called for one turn at the AFHT, after that the next shift has to take us home. Other railroads, including CP do not have that limitation.
You are right, the science exists. The companies choose to ignore it because of $$$$. The unions have so far been unable to get them or the government to take this problem seriously. It does not help that a fair number of individual employees like to be able to work as much as possible, and do not want additional restrictions.
Transport Canada is currently reviewing our Railway Hours of Service regulations, with an eye toward reducing the maximum hours we are allowed to work. The initial submissions by CN and CP were both rejected, but the railways have been given until early December to revise and re-submit their proposals. CN shared their initial proposal with the Union, as I recall it contained only minimal changes. CP won’t tell anyone what their proposal contains, so they probably don’t have one.
Unfortunately, the
When I first had the Georgia RR as a part of my territory on CSX’s Atlanta Division. The ‘contract’ required ‘Extra’ crews to be sent to their Home Terminal after being away from Home for 14 Days. 14 Days. This was a local contract that applied to ONLY Georgia RR crews working between Augusta (Home) and Atlanta and also protecting intermediate service of the ‘New Georgia RR Dinner Train to Stone Mountain’, ballast train turns between Atlanta and the quarry at Lithonia, Plant Harllee coal trains going Georgia Power’s plant at Milledgeville, GA.
The Dinner train was ‘short turnaround’ service, starting and ending in Atlanta. The Lithonia ballast trains were also ‘short turnaround’ service out of and back to Atlanta. The Plant Harllee trains would take rest at Milledgeville upon arrival. They would be called back on duty when the train was empty - the empties COULD either go back to Atlanta or on to Augusta, depending upon the Coal Departments needs. The crews ‘caught’ working th