What should be the hours on duty limit be for train crews, including the time required to returned to original staing point?
its not a real question of how much time on duty…the real issue with crew fatique is the time off befor your next call… you can work 12 hours with no problem…if you get enough rest… but try working another 12 hour shift with only a few hours sleep… i have done it…many many times…its not fun… so that is the real problem that needs to be addresed…the time off…not how much time on duty
csx engineer
That’s where there seems to be a big difference between the states and Canada.
It seems to vary depending on collective agreements, but here in my area crews can book up to 24 hours of rest after every tour of duty (at their home terminal).
So really a lot of the guys that work on the road only work every second day (or night for that matter) if they want to book 24 hours rest after every tour of duty, and lots of guys do.
We also have a milage limit here, so after working 3800 miles for your “milage month” you can no longer take anymore trips until your milege is reset.
So most guys will book 24 hours rest all the time unless they want to try and get their miles in so they can take a week off or so at the end of their milage month.
Doesn’t sound like there are too many places in the states that have a provision for booking rest.
So first of all let’s try an 8 hour call. Enough of this 75 to 90 minute warning of going on duty. If you get 8 hours notice then you know exactly when to go to bed. I know the railroads are going to scream bloody murder on this one but if they can’t predict where their 16000 ton 9000 feet trains will be in 8 hours then maybe they better try to learn how to manage their physical plant for a change rather than relying on the abuse of employees to make it work.
The 8hour call has been tried out of Sheridan, WY so it can work.
As I write this (2330) I am in Spokane rested and ready to go. I worked all night last night and then went to bed at the away from home terminal about 1300 expecting a 2300 call. I stirred a bit about 1800 and checked the line up and the train stood for 2330. About 2000 when I woke I was greated with a new lineup with an 0930 figure. Any chance I will get a good night’s sleep tonight? Not likely. Tomorrow will be a daylight trip but it will follow two all night trips back to back and I will probably only get a few hours nap before I get the call to go to work. It will be a L…O…N…G daylight trip tomorrow.
The railroads have had it their way long enough, lets try something that works for the health and safety of employees for a change. The Railroads have proven they can’t make their system work correctly for over one hundred years. I should also note most BNSF east bound trains I have worked out of Spokane in the last several months have been 40 to 60 hours late when I get them. Getting the crews on an 8 hour call might just make the trains run on time for a change as an added benefit. If the Unions can’t sell this idea to regulators, legislators and the public then perhaps they should step aside for someone who can.
Alan
Follow up to the earlier post above comes this news. About 30 minutes after I told you my call time had fallen to 0930 the phone rang and we were called for 0130 just two hours after we had bee
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe
So first of all let’s try an 8 hour call. Enough of this 75 to 90 minute warning of going on duty. If you get 8 hours notice then you know exactly when to go to bed. I know the railroads are going to scream bloody murder on this one but if they can’t predict where their 16000 ton 9000 feet trains will be in 8 hours then maybe they better try to learn how to manage their physical plant for a change rather than relying on the abuse of employees to make it work.
The 8hour call has been tried out of Sheridan, WY so it can work.
As I write this (2330) I am in Spokane rested and ready to go. I worked all night last night and then went to bed at the away from home terminal about 1300 expecting a 2300 call. I stirred a bit about 1800 and checked the line up and the train stood for 2330. About 2000 when I woke I was greated with a new lineup with an 0930 figure. Any chance I will get a good night’s sleep tonight? Not likely. Tomorrow will be a daylight trip but it will follow two all night trips back to back and I will probably only get a few hours nap before I get the call to go to work. It will be a L…O…N…G daylight trip tomorrow.
The railroads have had it their way long enough, lets try something that works for the health and safety of employees for a change. The Railroads have proven they can’t make their system work correctly for over one hundred years. I should also note most BNSF east bound trains I have worked out of Spokane in the last several months have been 40 to 60 hours late when I get them. Getting the crews on an 8 hour call might just make the trains run on time for a change as an added benefit. If the Unions can’t sell this idea to regulators, legislators and the public then perhaps they should step aside for someone who can.
Alan
Follow up to the earlier post above comes this news. About 30 minutes after I told you my call time had fallen to 0930 the phone ran
OTR Trucking is much worse. Ive had too many years of no sleep. I’ll not get into it here…
I typed up a 3000 word tirade against fatigue on the OTR side. I cut it and decided to say these two things I’ve learned.
1- Remind angry dispatcher the law says you must stop for rest, if problem with delivery time then the customer will need to adjust or… hire teams and keep the rigs going 24/7.
2- Driving tired is same as driving drunk. I will say that no one has died or got hurt under my wheels, but it was a near thing a few times.
One thing I would ask for being on the extra board would be at least 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep, meaning if you are off at 1200 they CAN NOT call you at all until 2000 hrs. Right now they can call you 2 to 3 hours before the end of your rest for your next call, if the board is turning fast. Just those couple of hours would help, not solve of course, some fatigue issues. Of course just those 2 to 3 hours extra no doubt would mean companies having to have many more people available on those boards.
Shrek
that would be nice for the crews…but the railroads CEOs would be jumping out of thier top fllor offices if this was to be inacted…thier goes their bounses…i have to agree with you… the railroad industry is still working with a 1920s mentality… they talk a good game when it comes to the quity of life…but they never do anything to actuly make it happen… we are just a number to them…and we are expendable in their eyes… thier is always someone younger then you that is jumping at the chance to take your place…the people that make the calls all have nice 9 -5 office jobs with the weekends off…while we are in the trenches working to death… but the only way it can realy change for the crews is if the FRA would to get involved more on crew rest issues…
csx engineer
CSX engineers can have 8 or 10 hours undisturbed rest before their next call. Since we get a two hour,this gives ten to twelve hours rest. This applies in the locations that I work. I’m not sure if it is system wide.
Does this problem affect Amtrak crews also?
AMTK crews operate on scheduled trains. This takes out much of the vairiblity of call times. There may still be some issues with extraboard engineers but not nearly as much as wilth freight railroads.
A few years ago we had for our extra boards, both train and engine service, rest days. We worked 7 days on then 3 days off. Everyone I ever talked to liked them, even those who at first were afraid they’ld make less money. Working the main line, you made just as much, or more but then had some time off. Some extra boards protecting the grain lines and the spine line just paid the guarantee, but normally did anyway. That’s what eventually killed the rest days, the company didn’t like paying the guarantee.
One side benefit was we always automatically had undesturbed rest when tying up. At least 8 hours everytime. Under certain conditions, you could get extra rest for 10 undesturbed. This was both at home and away from home. The phone would usually ring again in 8 (or 10) hours, but it was worth it because after 7 days you knew you’ld have 3 days off.
Jeff
yea we can take R8 (8hours undisterbed rest) or 10 hours undisterbed…but even with the extra rest…if you life miles from the terminal… you still only end up with a few extra hours at home…not enough to realy make a major diffrance in if your rested or not… also on the extra board…if you take extra rest… and you would have been called out if you didnt take the minimum rest…they will dock your garrintee for that day… basicly they penilize you for wanting more rest time… but the upside is if the board is truning and burning that fast that you are geting out on your rest even with taking more rest…you will blow the garrentee out of the water and make up the diffrance you lose when they dock you by getting the extra miles… it all works out in the end mony wise somehow… but it goes to show you that they give you the opption for more rest…but it will cost you…
csx engineer
This is one benefit to working on a shortline. You still might have to work all hours of the day, seven days a week, but at least you usually know when you will be going to work.
As far as hours of service, the 12 hour day is not to bad. The eight hour call time kills the RR if the train has a problem en route and crews start dieng on the road. What I would suggest is limit the time to 12 hours on duty in a 24 hour period. If you go to work at 0300 this morning at least you would have until 0300 the following day before you had to back.
So if there is trouble between stations it will be a problem for the railroads? So what? For now it is a problem for you. The railroads will tell you it is impossible for them to know where their multimillion dollar trains will in 8 hours within = or - 30 minutes yet they expect you to do that same impossible task. They are the ones with ALL of the information regarding delays, switching and schedules yet very little of that ever gets out to the employees who need to know when to get to bed to get rested. Why is it that the train line ups between two points almost always show the same expected running time on the line up between those two points? For instance, if there are only three opposing trains to meet and no work to do enroute all trains in that segment will show exactly X hours running time. On another day when there are 7 trains to meet, one gang out working and a 5 mile long 10 mph slow order to contend with the trains will still show exactly X hours running time on the same line segment. Why, because it is your responsiblilty to get to bed in time to get your rest. It is no problem to the railroad if your expected call time falls 24 hours or even moves ahead by 12 hours or more. You are supposed to do what the railroads claim they cannot do. It is long past time for a change. The job will be much safer and the railroads certainly will get better operations out of it. There is no penalty for their operational sloppiness now, perhaps there should be.
Alan