thats only partly true on the fines…i think we rehashed this in another tread not to long ago…but if the crew dose a willfull violation of the hours of service…the FRA can fine the crew responsable directly… if its not a willfull violation…meaning they where ordred by someone in the managment tree…such as a dispatchor or any managment personel…(trainmasters roadformans terminal managers)… the fine would then be brough on the offical responsable…and the odds are it then would be picked up the the company…
i know we did a thead on this not to long ago… ***ed if ican remember the title of it now…
csx engineer
the time that you sit and wait for a taxi and taxi ride back to your termianl is considered limbo time…you are still on duty since you havnt marked off of duty yet…but you are no longer alowed to proform any type of service… when your 12 hours is up…its up… going back and even tieing a handbreak on a locomotive after 12 hours is considered proforming service and is a willfull violation of the hours of service laws…stoping and tieing your train down should all be done befor your 12 hours is up…
csx engineer
Thanks, that answers my questions, and boy am I glad I work in a salaried 9 to 5 job, all those changes and options would be too much for me. [:D]
Thanks again.
Chris
Chris I’m in school now actually I’m on an apprenticship job at a diesel serviceing shop and my days when I work are generally 9 or 10 hours a day. When I got to school it’s 7hrs sometimes it’s a lot less depending on my professors. I think I’ll defanitly have to get used to working 60hr work weeks when I get hired out on the railroad 
I couldn’t play ice hockey anymore but, I love trains more than I do ice hockey so it would work out.
Thank you for the information CSXengineer [8D]. I apologize for the misunderstanding of the other post regarding FRA fines… my main point was that usually the crew is ** usually ** only fined in cases of very willful violations (including the ones you described), which I should have been more clear on. [B)]
csxengr., I’m going to put here what two different FRA men have told me, if you’re dead on the law and you’re going to leave a train setting somewhere, despite the fact that you’re dead, you’d better take time to put the handbrakes on because they both put the emphasis on the fact that God himself wouldn’t be able to help you if that train rolled away and they would not be able to help you because you failed to leave the train secured and your only excuse was that your Hours of Service had expired. So, when you go dead, better tie it down, they’re looking the other way for a grace period.
vally…im not saying that you are to laeve the train not tied down when its going to be left unattended…all i am saying is… if the FRA wants to be A-holes…and they see you… they can fine you for tieing your train down after the 12 hours are up… it should all be done befor you expire… i know you have to bend the rules from time to time… but the point i was making is that if you do it after the 12 hours…its considered a willfull violation and you can be fined for doing it…
csx engineer
Also,
Keep in mind both the train crew and the dispatcher know how much time they have, and if they can or can not reach where they want to go.
If it is a sideing they use frenquently, the crew has a good idea how long it takes to tie it down, they hustle it up some to make sure they make it.
It is rare for a crew to hit the hours of service un prepared…by the end of their time, they have it all tied down, and feed back called in, a cab on the way, and a cup of coffee to sip!
As a last resort, because it is a FRA violation to leave a train with no hand brakes applied, if a crew manages to die with out tieing it down,you can use the rule that allows for a crew to sit on a train and locomotive with no hand brakes, as long as one crew member is in position to apply the air brakes…a qualified crew member must be on the locomotive…so they sit there till a relief crew shows up, and one member of that crew is on board, they can then release the train to that crew…
If your question was how often does a train crew die out in the middle of nowhere with their train blocking everything…rare.
It happens, but not often, and the dispatcher will get his or her fanny chewed badly, not to mention the crew will have to explain to the TM why htey didnt make it any easier on the dispatcher…
We all work together to prevent this from happening…
Ed
Coffee’s usually all gone by the end of 12 or else it’s getting a little gamey, Ed.
All I’m saying is that if you pull up there at the last minute, all out of time, they’re going to give you ten minutes or so to tie the train down, I’ve been told this on separate occasions by two different FRA inspectors. I realize what csx is saying could be true but I know I’m not leaving it unsecured.
As for a crew member being on the train and not tying it down, that crew is dead and if it isn’t tied down then they’re performing service by being there, then that’s a willful violation, much more serious than tying it down immediately upon expiration of 12 hours
Two thermoses…yours and the engineers…Drink his first…
And “they” meaning the FRA don’t give you a grace period…12 hours are 12 hours…
I have never had a road job die without tying the train down; they know how long it takes and act accordingly.
I have worked a yard job, in one of our small yards, way out in the boonies, where we were order to work right up to the limit.
I informed the tower operator (who is our dispatcher, we work in RTC) that we wouldn’t have time to secure the train.
He said don’t worry, keep working.
I protested.
He insisted.
I said yes, but under protest.
He said a crew is on the way in the cab to relieve us, stop at 12 and sit.
Crew/cab shows up, followed by the FRA field agent.
Agent said we can do that, run right up to the limit, and then sit in the cab and wait.
My engineer said the same you did, that’s performing service.
FRA said no, that’s not service.
He told me part of the rules that states, in essence, if a emergency exists, such as the train would cause a “clear and obvious danger to other railroad employees and the public in general, work can be performed, but only to the extent to allow the original crew to remove the danger.”
He stated that if something like that did occur, he wanted to know about it…
He also told me that as long as a qualified crew member is on board, and able to secure the train if needed, that was ok too.
We can do that, and as soon as another crew shows up, and boards the train, it becomes their train, and their problem.
According to him, the presence of the crew member on the locomotive does not constitute service, but does equate to the train being secured.
We had several instances of something like this a few years ago, a gung ho new “dispatcher” running our road crews right up to the limit, then maki
Thanks everyone for all your insights into operations. Things are pretty close to truckers rules for locals in regards to call times etc. I learned from experience to plan my rest stops and also not waste rest time at bars,lady baiting etc.,but not before being in tight circumstances due to nobodys fault but my own. I’ve seen overpasses seem to almost meet the road ahead,causing a heavy footed brake application,(tunnel vision).Get the nods and see the rear doors of a box trailer seem to be in the windshield,(hundred feet away),again the brake application.Both mirages caused by either lack of sleep or over work. Of course after these incidents happened i fell out of the cab on shaking knees and beat myself with a tire billy for being so dumb.Any of you trainmen ever had tunnels close up on you,tracks come to a point and dissapear?
Stand between two trains, moving in opposite directions…
rested, its not too bad…tired. vertigo gets ya real quick.
So far, the only cure I found was to sit down, close my eyes, and rest my head on my knees.
Ed
Eby,do you get claustraphobia in your Magnum?Only kidding.LOL
[quote]
Originally posted by foureasy
… I learned from experience to plan my rest stops and also not waste rest time at bars,lady baiting etc.,…
[quote]
Two months as a train dispatcher taught me that EMS dispatching is nothing like train dispatching. I never even heard the terms like Hawged crew, dead-head, pigs, etc. until I started working at the railroad. I have read this post with much interest because understanding the rules of service is still not easy for me.
And then someone throws in a new term "lady baiting. " Is this one of those moments when I should just remark, like I did during one of my locomotive rideouts and having read the walls in the bathroom at the crew station, “… interesting use of language.”
Didn’t you ever fish with the boat moving?(trolling)Same thing,except for ,you’re trolling for some temporary companionship of the opposite sex.LOL
[:I] Oh. Thanks for the explanation. I learn something new everyday. lol
MBKCS,
And that works both ways![:D]
Foureasy, no, believe it or not, there is more room, front seat and back seat than a Lincoln Town Car…
And its a lot faster!
Ed
Ed,i went to your site,nice work there guy.Do you carve the watch cases also.
Whats your mpg with the hemi?
Thanks,
No, no carving onthe cases, yet.
That site will go away in a few days…we are building a bigger one, more detail.
And the Hemi is a MDS engine, multi displacment system.
At freeway speeds, or when ever the onborad computer senses that the throttle plate is not moving outside certain settings, it drops four cylinders out, by locking the valves and shutting off the injectors.
At idle, only four running.
It gets 24 to 28 mpg highway, and 15 to 19 city, depending on how much you keep your foot out of it!
Almost evrything on the car is controled by the computer, it dosnt even have a throttle cable, the computer reads the pedal position, and opens the throttle plate and adjust injector pressure accordingly.
This thing will tell you when the battries in you key chain alarm fob are getting weak!
It is Mercedes E class chassis parts with a Dodge green house, a Dodge engine, Mercedes tranny and three part rear end.
And I can get more stuff in the back, than we can get in my wifes Durango.
Ed
Back in the days of the 16 hr Hours of Service Law, deadheading was considered by the FRA to be “rest” time. So you could work to the away from home terminal, get called upon arrival to deadhead to the home terminal on a drag local that works 15 6o 16 hours to get home and then be placed back on duty upon arrival at the home terminal account your 16 hour deadhead time was “rest”. It was pretty rare but if it was snowing in the mountains and all the other supplies of crews were used up it was your chance to go back to the other end of the road. The 14 hr Hours of Service changed all that in 1970 or 1971.