This weekend while reading a book picked up at a used book store I came across a chapter about attempts to make trains crewless and there had been some succes with this . The article stated that they had some limited success with crewless locos in the middle of the drag and even less with a third set of engines being crewless at the end performing pusher service. The book I was reading was old ,N&W was still the in existence . I was wondering if there are any trains running today that are crewless ? It seems like a pretty dangerous way to propel tens of thousands of stell and cargo around.
A partial coal drag with three sets of engines , with one (head end ) would make a pretty interesting modeling oppurtunity. Will the current DCC systems handle five or six locos in a coal hauling drag ?
I wonder how old the book is. It sounds like an early attempt to go DPU which is fairly common now. And even in switching yards there is radio controlled switchers.
That book was obviously published many years ago before computerized radio control of locomotives became commonplace. Today’s trains use Distributed Power Units (DPU) as a matter of routine, with the engineer in the lead engine controlling all the mid-train and rear helper locomotives.
There are also remote controlled switch engines used in many yards or industrial areas today, controlled by one operator on the ground with a portable transmitter.
I believe the French have even experimented with remote controlled TGVs with no crew members on board.
This is probably more common than not now. In fact if you are on a public road around or near an area where remote units are used you will see a sign stating that such units are used. You may even see someone walking around with a “belt pack” on switching out cars and running the loco at the same time.
A locomotive will also frquently have a patch like this one has on the nose.
Being a former Engineer, this really pushes my buttons! The RRs are trying to do away with crews and nothing could be more dangerous! Does anybody really want an unmanned train? We had an experimental yard job with remote control in Buffalo that only lasted a short time. About the time we had it, a conductor from another RR killed himself with one. It happened years ago at the Donner Hannah Steel co in Buffalo as well. Anyway, they have gotten a few yard jobs that way, but fortunately the UTU and BLE have done a pretty good job of preventing it on the mainline. Just think of a rare occasion when the signal from the remote throttle doesn’t get through to the train. That should be enough to scare anyone! Ever had a DCC loco not respond? Think of that on the Northeast Corridor! -Stan
I think the “people movers” at some airports are crewless, now, such as at Atlanta-Hartsfield. I recall reading somewhere about a public transportation system that was also crewless.
There was talk at one time of BART going crewless. They couldn’t get the logistics worked out on the idea. I remember reading about it in a engineering magazine years ago.
When I was in N Carolina a few years ago, CSX was running coal trains up into Kentucky on the old Clinchfiled main line. They used 3 locomotives. On the up train with empties they were all on the front. On the down train with loads, 2 locos were on the front and one on the rear that was in radio control from the front cab. The whole thing was run by 2 people. They were running up to 100 car unit trains about every 15 or 20 minutes, 24/7.
I have seen photos of yard swtiching done with no one in the locomotive. An operator (engineer???) on the ground has a radio control unit strapped to his chest, and controls the loco that way. I assume he also throws switches and couples/uncouples cars as well.
Your question made me wonder. The book tiltle is “Great trains of North America” the last reprint in the book was 1978!!! [:O] None the less many of the articles are a great read even if some are a - bit outdated -
Train Mag had a great article in DPU a few months back (Sept 2010), you can order it online, it covered how DPUing worked, how the different major railroads are using them and the physics of how it works in relation to track wear and train control… A really good read.
When Locotrol was first introduced the signal was sometimes interrupted when either the master or the slave (DPU) was in a tunnel. I believe that the remote just went into idle rather than applying the brakes, although if the train was climbing the ruling grade it could stall, in a sense coming to a stop. The problem could be solved by running a “leaky” cable through the tunnel to provide a path for the radio signal.
Incidentally, while that Trains article referenced was good, for some reason it almost ignored CPR’s very significant role in the use of remotes, starting from the late 1960s and expanding consistently through the several versions of Locotrol and beyond. I suspect CPR’s continued dedicated support was critical to the advances as technology improved. Many of the US roads were rather intermittent in its use, and real expansion south of the 49th really only occurred recently now that DPUs have become fashionable.
I believe the Skytrain in Vancouver, B.C. is crewless. It’s an LRT system. The only “crew” on board is a ticket checker. Someone from that area can correct me if I’m wrong.
I can understand your concerns, but an on-board crew is no guarantee of safe operation, as this example on the Northeast Corridor shows. As long as there are people in control, there’s a chance that mistakes will be made, just the same as there’s the chance that automated systems can fail.
For the railroads, crew size is an issue, rightly or wrongly, of economics whereas others view it as one of safety. The steel plant where I worked had an extensive in-plant railroad with over two dozen locomotives in use. Crews consisted of an engineer, and, depending on the particular job, one or two switchmen (all radio-equipped), although originally there were 27 “jobs”, each employing four man crews.
Over the course of several years, the locos were conve
Did anyone hear about the accident in Avon three years ago? A cut of cars rolled out INTO the mainline and was struck by an oncoming train–at speed, because he knew nothign about a cut of cars in his way? Yeah. Those cars were allowed to roll because the remote engine needed their brakes to be OFF wo it could pump up. Some crewman took the brakes off so the train would be ready for the Remote to couple up and go. But by separating the brakeman and leaving only 1 guy in control, they allowed a cut of two dozen cars to sit on a slight grade for 8 HOURS without the brakes applied before anyone got around to doing somethign with them. And by then, they were gone.
True, fault lies with the person who took the brakes off, not the remote itself, but the remote control engien affected the operating crew and policy. A guy with a beltpack can;t easily shimmy up the side of a Hopper to crank the brake wheel like a brakeman can. Had the engineer not been on his own, that might very well not have happened. And if the brakeman was WITH the engine, then they definately wouldn’t have had the opportunity