It’s come to my attention that KCS is now running crewless trains. It started on the Meridian speed way. These trains are tracked by normal GPS and CTC systems but there is not an operator on board any of these trains. A system much like DCC is being used through the track and signals sent though the rail’s are what control the trains. Now they have to remove all grade crossing’s and either make them go over or under the track sense no one is there to control the train therefore no accidents can happen except out of stupidity of playing on the tracks. Does anyone else have any information on this?
I remember hearing something about automated trains several years ago, but they were just testing things out. I never really followed up on it though.
Guess they got it to work!
Kinda scarey though, just like driving a car or flying a plane, you can automate 95% of the process, but there is still 5% human factor that can never be duplicated… therein lay the accidents and catastrophes.
now, all that’s needed is for them to put an electric (or 7) on the lead, and then people who say you’re just “playing with trains” because 1:1 locos need x,y,z to run, you can just point out the KCS…[8D]
Sounds like they might be taking lessons from us modelers, getting a signal from the track.
I heard several years ago that they have farm tractors working in orchards that are un-manned using GPS to control them. They say that if they can make them plow around the trees, they will be alright in an open field. just my [2c]
I sort of doubt that the trains are unmanned. The Meridian Speedway has seen a lot of upgrading over the past several years, but is no where near even having complete signaling system across the entire line. What your source may be talking about is remote control engines for switching. A lot of major railroads are using a ‘one man’ crew who is controlling the engine from the ground via a radio belt pack - that makes more sense. Several large railroads floated a ‘trial balloon’ about one man crews on non-stop trains last year, but dropped the idea after the congressional elections.
Jim
UP is doing the same thing here at the Strang Yard in the Houston (La Porte) area. They run remote control up to Fairmont Parkway, but past that, they can’t run because of the highway crossing gates.
They are now building an overpass over Fairmont Parkway so that both north and south ends of the yard can be run via remote control for at least 5 miles from both ends of the yard. (Talk about one fancy DCC system!)
All this is going to do is put more people out of work namely railroad engineers so that the UP gaint can grow even bigger. Don’t these companies that automate to this extreme know that the people that work for them usually are the ones that buy their products in the end? People won’t buy products if they are out of work and talk about overloading the welfare system!
Too much automation and there won’t be any jobs for anyone anymore and society is gonna creator as we know it. …Ever see the movie “Terminator” 1 and 2? When a machine takes over a man’s job, trouble is going to follow. we may not see it in this generation, but down the road, it’s going to cause devistating consequences.
BNSf also uses remote control switchers in many of their yards. I know they have them at the Cherokee Yard in Tulsa plus many others.
George
IIRC The BART system in San Francisco Bay area was originally designed as a “driverless” system, but it seems the public didn’t approve of that so drivers were added.
-George
A guy with a remote in a yard is one thing, but if we’re talking trains out on the main with no crews…I can only say this has got to be the worst and most irresponsible thing I have heard in a very long time! There are some things you don’t do no matter how efficient. I can honestly say as a train fanatic I certainly wouldn’t want to see one go by with nobody personally controlling it. Some things really get out of hand in the name of efficiency. I don’t believe in only one person crews for a large road freight either.
Never heard of that before but that’s pretty cool.
-dekruif
If automation led to widespread unemployment, it would have happened a long time ago. Automation allows people to be more productive. We are currently near what is considered to be full employment despite decades of automation. Automation might make some jobs obsolete but it creates others.
Companies are not in business to provide jobs. They are in business to make money. To do so requires a labor force which is the bulk of their expenses. Reducing labor costs increases profit. Any company the refuses to keep up with current technology runs the risk of going out of business which will put their entire labor force out of business.
I’m not certain of this but isn’t the BART system in the San Francisco area automated. I thought I saw that on the History Channel.
It is nothing like driving a car or flying a plane. Trains are on fixed guideways. Most accidents and catastrophies are caused by human error - so eliminating that source of error should actually decrease accidents and catastrophies.
Yes, people have been saying this since the industrial revolution started, but history has shown the exact opposite to be true. Automation makes things cheaper so people can buy more. Some of the things that we can buy today amazes me. They are dirt cheap now, but were high end luxury items when I was a kid.
Yes, but I’m not going to base any real world views or philosophies on a science-fantasy action adventure movie (especially totally unbelievable ones). Notice there were no trains. If the machines were so smart they would have optimized the most efficient ground transportation network. Neitherwould they have wasted their time duplicating mechanically inefficient bipeds.
I see the biggest problem with this not being the train or control thereof, but external factors as someone else has already mentioned. Things like deer, cows, or stupid people getting on the tracks where they aren’t supposed to be.
If you’ll recall, the idea was that they could mimic humans.
However, none of those things would actually impede the train’s progress if hit - they’re only concerns on the wash rack.
KL
Remote control for switching makes sense to me, but I live near a KCS main in Louisiana and have seen trains pass by my home in the rural area and I swear that there was nobody on board, at least nobody that I could see.
I rather suspect that the, “crewless trains,” will actually have human controllers, just like the UAV’s currently operating. The one-person crew will be in some comfortable cubicle in a big room with twenty other staffed cubicles, operating a blizzard-afflicted train from an anonymous building in Fort Lauderdale or Tucson. Thanks to modern communications, the train operator will have the same degree of control as if he (she) was sitting in the cab - and possibly better visibility (IR enhanced, or on-board radar.) No concern about “dying for time” in the approximate heart of nowhere - the next shift will be able to take over just by sliding into the warm seat. Then the train op will go get a home cooked meal and sleep in his (her) own bed.
As for jobs - those train ops will undoubtedly be more efficiently utilized (road freight sitting in West Podunk waiting for a meet? Use that half hour to move a transfer run from A yard to B yard five hundred miles from West Podunk.) OTOH, the fancy communications system will not install, maintain or modify itself. The trend is away from the “brute force and ignorance” jobs, toward the more technologically challenging positions on the advancing edge of technology.
Progress WILL happen. All the individual can do is lead, follow or get out of the way.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a way that has now totally vanished from the real world)
I think a previous post stated that they were originally, but changed due to public opinion on it.
There’s an old joke about the first computer controlled crewless flight across the Atlantic. When the plane reached cruising altitude where the human pilot would normally activate the PA to announce basic flight information(cruising altitude,head wind or tail wind,weather conditions at destination,ETA)to the passengers, the computer activated a message to passengers which announced basic flight information and assured the passengers that their safety was paramount and all situations and conditions had been programmed into the plane’s computer systems so that**…“nothing can go wrong, nothing can go wrong, nothing can go wrong”.** [#oops]
Hope the KCS has considered all situations and conditions. [:-^]
Follow on to this breakthrough [?] to be automated engine maintenance?
Jon
I may be mistaken, but didn’t UP do this several years ago up in the upper plains states?
I definitely remember reading about it somewhere.
Steve
Actually, CSX got the jump on them about five years ago running a train south out of their Toledo yard through northwest Ohio.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/05/15/runaway.train.05/
I think they still had some bugs in their system.