I would like to get a clearer understanding of who manned first-class named trains in the pre-Amtrak era, and the duties of each position.
There was the dining car staff, cooks and waiters. Who else?
There was the sleeping car staff, porters mostly. Anyone else?
Who staffed parlor or club cars?
Anyone assigned to the coach cars?
Finally, there were the train crew themselves, engineer, fireman, conductor, trainmen, brakeman, flagman and what other positions?
There will be variations between railroads but seniority was a big factor
There will be no variations amongst railroads. There was the train crew: engineer, fireman, head brakeman, baggageman, conductor, rear brakeman, other collectors, trainmen, or brakemen (only part differening by railroad or commuter/mainline services). The Pullman cars would have one Pullman conductor and usually one Porter per car; both employees of the Pullman Company and not the railroad). Dining cars were staffed by the railroad including kitchen, stweart, and wait staffs which did differe per train and per railroad. Pullman did offer Parlor cars with attendents. After the end of Pullman Company service, all crews were railroad employees.
Thank you for your response. I seek elaboration on a few points:
What were the duties of the brakeman, and why would a train need more than one?
Who protected the train from the rear in case of a breakdown?
If a single-track and a breakdown, who protected the train from the front, if anyone?
How do collectors and trainmen differ?
There are lots of rail history books and magazines which will help explain to you and help you appreciated and comprhend the answers and give you a better feel about railroads and railroading. Also old books of rules and employee timetables Before air brakes brakemen rode the cars to turn wheels to tie down the brakes; usually a brakeman would be in charge of up to maybe 5 or so cars…these guys actually rode the tops freight cars and turned down the brake wheels under direciton of the engineer’s whistle commands. After air brakes, the position and name continued with one assigned to the locomotive and the other to the caboose on a freight and the rear cars on a passenger train,. A brakeman would also double as flagman if none were otherwise assigned or designated. The head brakeman would also be in charge of flagging in front of the train. Collectors and trainmen differ in that “collectors” are more a commuter train designation but both were probably the same depending on the individual railroad. Trainman is also a generic term in railroading to mean anyone who worked aboard the train but neither the engineer nor fireman; to the lay community, it is often anybody who works on the train. Labor rules have changed over the years and there is more usually a conductor and engineer for a freight train, even a passenger train, with possibley a third man on a freight called a trainman or brakeman; passenger trains often have the same old compliment with the addition of an assistant conductor. Depending on railroad, service provider, and geographic location there are similarities and differences today. Others found on trains were baggagman and or laborer who worked baggage cars, and mail handlers and clerks who were employees of the United States Post Office.
Now, on long-distance trains, you will have an engine crew of an engineer and an assistant engineer, and a train crew of a conductor and an assistant conductor. There will also be on-board service crews of car attendants (usually one per sleeper and one for two or three coaches), a lounge car attendant, and dining car personnel (the number of which will depend upon how many people are expected to be served).
Formerly, the train crew consisted of two brakemen and one conductor. One brakeman would serve as baggageman, though some roads did have a separate man in charge of baggage; this brakeman also took care of lining switches at the head end, but usually rode in one of the passenger cars; he did not necessarily wear a uniform; if it were necessary to protect the front of the train, he had the responsibility. The other brakeman was assigned to work at the rear of the train–lining switches at the rear, protecting the rear of the train (flagging), and assisting the conductor as necessary; he wore a uniform. Coaches also had porters who were railroad employees; usually each one took care of two cars. Whereas a Pullman porter would stay with the car from start to finish, the coach porters usually changed along the way and thus could get rest without being disturbed (Pullman porters were subject to being called to assist during both night and day).
On trains which had only one sleeper, there was no Pullman conductor; the porter for that car had a title something like “Porter in Charge.” The porter in a sleeper lounge car not only took care of the sleeping accommodations, but also worked as the lounge attendant. In all parlor cars and lounge cars operated by the Pullman Company, the attendants were Pullman employees.
Collectors are usually found only on trains (such as those in suburban service) that carry many passengers and stop so often that crew of a single conductor would not be able to check everybody’s ticket between stations.
I have ridden one long-distance train th
On the branch line where I grew up, the crew that brought the passenger train north was the same crew that had brought the local train south, so they just changed uniforms (another crew did the same thing with the opposite pair). As Johnny said, one brakeman worked in the baggage car, and the other was in uniform (the train only had one coach, so he had little to do except line a couple of switches). There was still a fireman in the cab with the engineer at that time; he occasionally had to pass signals to the engineer. When I got to know the crew and their routine, they had Geeps to power these trains (first GP7s, then GP9s), but prior to that it was BL2s (wouldn’t have minded a ride in one of those, but then again, with two people already in the cab, I might not have fit!).
One question I have is what was done about mail service. I know that the employees on RPOs were Post Office Department people, but when I was watching these trains, some just had to handle bags of mail to be sorted elsewhere (either Grand Rapids or Chicago, in that case). Were the brakemen/baggagemen bonded in some way to handle these bags?
Cshave,
I worked as depot baggagman (Clerk’s union) one summer at Wenatchee Washington in the last days of GN. We had RPOs on some trains. These were manned by armed Post Office employees but I took the mail to and from the trains.
We had a mail train, #5 that handled bagged mail between Spokane and Seattle. The train crew rode in a baggage car with sacked mail that they put off at various stations. #5 also had a 40’ express box car with other than first class mail. One of our switch engines plucked it off the rear of #5. I and a guy from the post office unloaded this car. I will never forget throwing heavy bags of Readers Digest from the ends of the car to the door for him to throw into his truck.
Mac
DSO17 WRITES:
Generally rear-end protection was provided by the rear brakeman (flagman) He was also responsible for making sure the markers were properly displayed. He might have other duties, but could not allow them to interfere with protecting the train.
Front end protection could be provided by the front brakeman, or if none was available, the baggageman or the fireman.
Again, a reading of the AAR Standard Code or a book of rules for any railroad would go a long way in explaining the various titles and responsibilities and give greater insight to the whole picture. There was either the flagman with specific duties and equipment or the rear brakeman would do the duties if there is not a flagman position per se. Each railroad took the Standard Code and adapted it to its own operations.
Santa Fe had “nurses” assigned to some of their trains (one of which being the El Cap), but I am not sure what their exact duties were. I recall reading that their duties were beyond what you would think of as a nurse.
Railroad operating employees (Engineer, Fireman (Asst. Engineer), Baggageman (head end brakeman), Conductor (Asst. Conductors) & Flagman are all covered by the Federal Hours of Service law. All other passenger train service personnel are not.
I can add some points about dining car crews since I had a dining car steward in my family. The dining car steward was like a restaurant manager. He orderd food, planned menus, seated passengers and was responsible for collecting money and making reports of same. Engine and train crews were changed at customary division points as provided for in the labor agreement. Dining car crews would often stay with the car for the entire trip and sleep in dormitory cars. Where T&E crews would be gone from home one night and be back the next day, dining car crews could be gone 6 or 8 days then be off for a number of days. They were under the supervision of local and division officers as were T&E crews but were also subject to the Superintendent of Dining Cars or some similar officer.
All of the other posts did a great job of explaining crew members. I just wanted to add that B&O also had stewardesses at one time. They were also nurses because when I was a kid traveling with my parents to Washington, DC, I didn’t feel well and she gave me some med to settle my stomach. Too much excitement.
The original California Zephyr also had Zephyrettes who did similar duties and also came through the cars taking dinner reservations.
I took many trips with my parents on my Dad’s Frisco pass during the years pre-Amtrak, so very familiar with all these people and their positions. Dad always had to write out our diner menu and the steward gave a copy to the waiter. That was supposedly a throwback to the old days when many of the African-American waiters were not able to read.
I did travel one time with friends in a Pullman bedroom and was able to ride on UP City of Los Angeles all-Pullman train with dome diner and fancy lounges. That was quite an experience for girls barely out of their teens and it didn’t cost that much more than a regular coach seat in those days.
I also rode in a sleeping car in Canada, lower berth, but not sure if Canadian crews worked for Pullman or not.
Those were wonderful days. But I have taken some long-distance trips by Amtrak too and it’s been a great experience.
I noticed you mentioned you were in Clerk’s Union and I’m thinking it was probably the same one as my Dad belonged to. Brotherhood of Railway Clerks and I think the official title included Station Agents.
Mom also belonged to the same union when she worked for Frisco in their General Office. Dad worked at Lindenwood Yards, in the early years outside as yard clerk checking car seals and other duties and with more seniority, he was able to move inside which was much nicer.