Every now & then I see pictures of trains in crossings where the crossing gates are not lowered. Is there any reason this would happen other than through a malfunction? Even if a train is stopped at a crossing (blocking the road) for any length of time, the gates normally stay lowered the entire time.
In going through old Trains - January '92 in this case - there is a pic on page 12 (where a restored Lackawanna E8 was preparing to depart Tully, NY with a charter train) that shows the engine blocking a local street crossing, with the gate vertical.
I would think it’s a malfunction… The only other reasons might be a “photo op” or perhaps the crossing is about to be eliminated and the gates have been taken out of service.
Once when I was out west of Reno, IN one of the gates malfunctioned at a crossing, and the approaching train actually stopped and let me cross!
Are you referring to incidents where gates fail to lower, but the lights flash properly?
Can anyone tell me the probability of the entire signal device (gates and lights) failing to activate as a train approaches a crossing? I have seen many instances of a failure to de-activate, but never a failure to activate.
Last year I had an opportunity to read (skim) a maintenance manual on crossing equipment, and there was a paragarph about a “Rate of Change” sensor. Seems that if there is no change in the electrical charactistics (resistance) bening measured to detect a train, then the assumption is that the train has stopped and therefore the gate can be raised.
For those not familiar with the details of resistance, the total resistance is not zero for a current path down the rails and across the axles…small, yes, but not zero. Each conductor has a resistance per unit length…all you need is a device senstive enough to detect small resistances. (such as a Wheatstone bridge). [zzz]
I would think that is it very possible for the sensing portion of a grade crossing to fail, which would, of course, cause everything else to fail to operate. A grade crossing accident I’ve heard of is reputed to have been the result of a signal maintainer deactivating the sensing circuits.
As to the gates being up while a train occupies a crossing - that could be a function of the circuits that sense motion (on crossings so equipped) - unless there is an absolute portion of the circuit (on the crossing itself), once the circuit fails to sense motion (as happens when a train stops short of a crossing), the gates are likely to go back up.
But that’s just based on my limited knowledge of crossing equipment.
I recall that earlier crossing flashers with the rotating stop sign had little windows on the sides of the lamp housings. When the lamps were flashing through their red lenses, they also shined through the little windows, thus giving the engineer of an approaching train an indication that the crossing signals were working. I have not looked close enough at current installations to see if those little indicator windows are still there. Also, I do not recall how easily those indicators could be seen in daylight.
I also have heard head end crews call the fact that crossing signals are working just like calling other signals. I do not know if this is current required practice.
This is my basic question:
What is the responsibility of an engineer approaching a crossing to know that the crossing signals are working? And if there is such a responsibility;
How is an engineer supposed to know whether the crossing signals are working?
What is the engineer supposed to do if the signals are not working?
I’m not an engineer (train kind, anyway) so I can’t give a good answer to number 1 other than to say that crossing equipment isn’t replaced on any set schedule. So many crossing signals still have the windows so train crews can see if the bulbs are lit. I’m not sure if the new LED lights radiate their light in enough directions to make the windows work like they do with incandecent bulbs.
As for number 2: they are required to report to the dispatcher if they notice anything amiss at a crossing. The dispatcher, in turn, calls the maintainer to check it out and notifies any following trains to stop and flag the crossing or slow down watching for auto traffic (which I don’t think is a great idea). Then, pray that the auto drivers are paying attention and if necessary, duck. (not from any physical danger, but from seeing the eyes of the driver when they realize that this is thier last second on this earth. Nobody deserves that nightmare.)
Crossing gates are designed to fail safe. Thus, if there is trouble with the system such as a power outage, sensor issue or other internal malfunction the gates should move to the protecting position (Horizontal or closed) and remain there. Crossing protection has battery backup systems which can move gates and hold them down for extended periods.
Usually when gates are up and a train is present it is because the protection has been intentionally disabled and taken out of service temporarily for repair or due to a special circumstance such as a train stopped on the crossing. If the protection is disabled train crews or other employees or law enforcement are assigned to provide flag protection at the crossing under the applicable operating rules.
The way I see it, a flasher/gate protected crossing that fails to activate upon the approach of a train would be profoundly more dangerous to highway traffic than a passive crossing that is simply marked with an unlit crossbuck, and no flashing lights or gates. The danger from a failed signalized crossing comes from the fact that drivers lower their natural sense of defense, and rely on the signals. For this reason, I would expect all trains to stop and flag across any signalized crossing that is known to fail to activate. Such a crossing with trains operating as normal would be a death trap for motorists as dangerous as Russian roulette.
But this hazard hinges on the probability of a crossing signal failure. Since crossing gates are designed to be fail-safe, as LC has mentioned, maybe a failure to activate simply never happens. I have never seen nor heard of it happening.
In another discussion on this basic topic, I asked how many people exercise the same degree of wariness and looking for trains at signalized crossings that they do at unlit, passive crossings. I think a lot of people expect that the proper answer to that question is that they exercise identical wariness at both types of crossings. If it could be tested, I’ll bet that few, if any, drivers exercise the same degree of looking for tra
…Just in my reading about crossing lights and arms, etc…It always seemed to me it was indicating the system was a fail safe system…Always in the protected position if something failed.
If the crossing lights are bulbs, they still have the side windows on them so train crews can see if they are flashing. LED crossing lights (at least on Conrail shared assets) have extra red LEDs built on the side of the lights that shine parallel to the track for train crews to see.
In my part of the world Union Pacific powers the entire signal system, including road crossing signals with high voltage AC (1500 volts, I beleive) on small cross arms at the top of the lineside open wire system poles. Each signal cabinet along the right of way has batteries, kept charged by that power distribution system, using trickle chargers.
These chargers have a small white light mounted on the outside of the cabinet which is lit, indicating the charger is working.
A signal maintainer told me if one of these lights at a crossing is out, the first train to observe the problem is authorized to cross the road while contacting the dispatcher. Following trains must stop and flag.
I asked him why only one train was allowed to pass. He told me that the batteries are sized to power at least one complete warning sequence. Power for more than one sequence could not be assured under all conditions.
The flashing lights have observation lights in their sides to allow train crews to observe if they are working.
An engineer (as well as the conductor) is expected to be familiar with his/her territory. That includes the crossings.
You can generally see the crossing protection well enough from the cab to tell if it’s operating properly. My first cab ride on the Adirondack was on one of our lines that has a number of crossings with protection. If the engineer couldn’t see both sides (as when we were running long hood forward), the “fireman” would call the other side. “Down and Clear!”
Aside from notifying the dispatcher, the crew has to flag the crossing. If you are listening in on a line that is uses over-the-air Form D/EC-1/Track warrants, you may hear the dispatcher give instructions to the crew to flag a certain crossing. Once a bulletin order has been published about the outage it won’t be given over the air anymore, though.
Although all the answers provided are quite accurate, the only solution missing is that of time. Chances are that this crossing was protected by a gate operator (or keeper). Once the crossing was occupied by a train, the gate operator would raise the gates imanually f he had other duties to preform. Most railroads back in the time of the Lackawanna had gate keepers at busy crossings where passenger trains would be stoped to receive and discharge passengers, as well as where switching would be preformed.
We have a crossing in my area that is at the end of a yard with gates and flashers. It is set up to detect if a train is moving. If a train pulls up to the crossing and stops short of it and is stoped for a time the gates will raise back up. When the train starts to move they come back down .This happens when a train has been held just out of the yard and stops short of the crossing or the switch engine stops short of the crossing while switching. There is an section that if there is a train in it the gates go down and stay down even if the train is stoped. This gives full protection when the train in crossing the road way. This keeps highway traffic moving as smoothly as possible.
Up until 1969 or 1970 the B&O had air operated crossing gates in Mckeesport Pa. that had to be pumped down manually by the crossing watchmen. Due to leakage in the system the pumping had to be done more or less continously to keep the gates down. Thus after a train occupied the crossing the gates were allowed to rise. Mark
This pic was in the ‘Railroad News Photos’ section; it was a Central New York Chapter NRHS special from Tully to Chenango Bridge NY on Oct 13, 1991. I have seen some of the manually operated gates you mentioned (the PC/NYC/B&A had some in the Boston, MA area into the early 70s) but this pic looks like a standard automatic crossing gate. I’d scan in the picture, but would probably need to get the ok from Kalmbach first.
I will answer the question the best this engineer can. Reality is we have no idea if the crossing is working til we get close enough to see the lights there is times we can see the gates come down and know they are working, but… if none of this happens it is usually to late for us to take any action to stop, there is no way to stop. the best you can do is blow like hell and hope you dont hit nobody, now if you make it thru the intersection you call in and tell the dispatcher that the signal did not activate, then the flag rule will be in affect til crossing is fixed, if there is a gate malfunction but signals was active its a slow down and make sure traffic is stop. if it is a false activation we slow down and make sure people are stopping, but these last things are already reported, but if its a failure and you happen to be the
On the the outside of the little building next to the track, that houses the controls for crossing lights and gates, there is a small, bright, white light that I, at first, assumed was just a light for a maintainer to be able to see the door and lock to get in at night.
I then figured that maybe it might be a “status light”. An indication to a train crew that if the light was not on, that maybe the lights/gates were not working.
I just recently noticed that this light flashes at about a 1/2-sec on, 1/2-sec off, rate while the gates are going up (only).
Is there some significance to this that the train crew is (or should be) alert to?
I guess that it might be some sort of warning that the gates are going the wrong way when the train is approaching a crossing, but how often could that be happening that even the very minor expense of such a minor warning circuitry would be justified?
Is knowledge of this “feature”(?) a part of a train crew’s instruction that they should watch for it?
Each public railroad crossing at grade is registered with the Federal Railroad Administration. The registration’s alpha-numeric code usually is affixed to one or more of the vertical masts that support the gates, flashers, and crossbucks.
On many lineside equipment shacks that house the electronics and relays controlling the grade crossing warning devices is a bumper sticker with the name of the railroad and an emergency 800-number to call to report any problems. To report a problem, just dial the number, give the railroad the FRA registration number and/or street-and-city name if you know it, and describe the problem as well.
A few years back while driving along the U.P. (not Espee) mainline in Ontario, Calif., I saw a crossing gate installation that was behaving funny. No trains were present, the flashers weren’t working, but the gate arm was cycling in the vertical position through a small 10-to-15-degree arc. I called in the problem to Omaha and within minutes the dispatcher had a westbound approach the crossing at restricted speed. I later learned that within an hour or two, a signal maintainer had fixed the problem.
So, fellow railfans, don’t be shy about reporting something that you think isn’t quite right with crossing gates and flashers. You might save a motorist’s life in the process!