About 2 weeks ago the Tyrone police reported to CSX that a auto grade rail crossing had a broken rail. The break was bad enough that cones were placed to warn drivers to not hit the rail. Suspect that the rail was above the track and road level. 4 hours later a manifest CSX train crossed the “broken rail” and derailed at least 8 cars. No spills.
People who wanted an explanation finally went to TV station for answers.
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a detailed video however it does not show what was broken .
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I have no idea what actually happened in the particular instance.
Tyrone was part of my territory when was ACD on the Atlanta Division.
What would have happened, in my day, was the PSCC would have fielded the call from the Tyrone authorities. The PSCC would have notified the Chief that was working at the time. The Atlanta ACD would in turn notify the Train Dispatcher and Roadmaster for the territory - If the Tyrone authorities in their report that there was some form of failure of the crossing protection that information would be given the the actual Train Dispatcher who would issue a Train Message requiring a train to protect the crossing in a manner as required by the type of failure reported.
Upon notification it is the Roadmaster’s call if and when to operate trains over the point in question.
I doubt that us, as outsiders, will ever find out where the system failed in this particular incident.
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Video makes it look like it was a rail head separation within angle bars within the crossing. Looks like maybe a foot of rail head was broken off each rail at the joint.
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Maybe the two threads can be combined?
Cheers, Ed
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Well, if you’re going to throw track into the discussion…
https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2020-08/2008_Track_Safety_Standards%20(1).pdf
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I thought track was the discussion?
Perhaps I missed something…
Ed
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Track was not a causative issue at East Palestine.
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Never said it was.
My original thread on this (Lessons Learned) was in reference to early detection of defects. Using the scenario that a failing bearing can pass detector A while still cold, detector B slightly elevated temperature and detector C which was only a few hundred yards from the point of derailment.
A defect present and missed.
I titled the broken rail event in Georgia as “Lessons Learned” in reference to what EXTRA precautions have the railroads adopted since the East Palestine wreck? I would think the railroad’s corporate culture would take a more active role in heeding ‘warnings’ weather from a hot journal detector or a human LEO calling in a definite rail defect and ACT on it.
What part are you misunderstanding? I’m simply pointing out here that there are duplicate threads concerning the CSX derailment in Tyrone, Georgia.
Ed
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One of the ‘lessons’ that emerged in the wake of East Palestine was that you couldn’t rely on a constant temperature rise at the outer face of the journal to detect catastrophic failure of the inner bearing components. In some cases the bearing can proceed to complete failure in less than seven miles, within even the most optimistic spacing of outside detector suites.
One of the points not yet adequately developed in the reporting was the length of time visible fire under the train, not related to the bearing location, was observed by independent cameras – while the ‘optimized’ hot box detectors only signaled a tiny fraction of that visible temperature.
There seemed to be an effort to blame ‘Chinesium’ construction of the particular bearings that went on the car, but that seems to have petered out. We’ve been spoiled by M-942 bearings that outlast the life of the wheels themselves, with long MTTF even in the presence of flat or other damage… we thought. A problem – and it is a bad one to contemplate – is that we may have to treat every bearing, all the time, as one that might progress to seizing or burning off a journal between detector locations, or without triggering a ‘critical enough’ response.
I think Balt’s response – in part from experience – neatly summed up how CSX procedure would deal with this… including that there is no duty to railfans to assign blame-o for the situation.
What I’d suggest a ‘take-home’ lesson be here is the desirability to upload images and videos from cell phones when a call to the ‘crossing number’ is made. In the present case, “a picture would be worth a thousand words” in conveying the severity and risk of the damage, and the image could be forwarded as an entity to other organizational divisions or responders/contractors with minimal confusion.
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Woke: All fine and good but it’s rather like depending on passengers or casual observers from the ground to notice serious flaws in airplanes.
If you are in the airplane and see something wrong, giving a picture quickly to the captain will obviously help in a great many circumstances! Remember, we’re talking about situations the railroad would not detect even with massive wayside detection or cameras at crossings.
Something for sure is that a picture of the broken rail in the subject incident would have resulted in the desired cessation of traffic over the crossing in no more than about five minutes, if forwarded as indicated and easily opened as an attachment or inline image.
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Next time you fly, try reporting an equipment anomaly and see what response that gets.
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Have to wonder if the Tyrone police did not identify the correct crossing. Could have they listed it as a street crossing?
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As a former crew carrier, I witnessed a similar incident several years ago. Local people notified RR a high centered load at a grade crossing =. danger/incident. The train crew got the information too late. Just as they hit. They saw the obstruction, but thought it was moving. Exact timing I do not know, RR notified and DS call to warn crew. In this Tyrone case, 4 hours.
Now add Walts opinion, true, We will never know who dropped the ball. It would be nice if the RR, which ever/where ever RR, for PR = safety confirmation, WOULD divluge, after it was discovered. No names, but we found the cause, and have CORRECTED that communication lapse of the system.
Even if NOT RR fault. It is in the best effort of RR PR to have citizen’s peace of mind to post cause. Why? The RR always comes out looking to be the bad guy.
i.e. Years ago: TX parade/flatbed trailer/loaded w-veterans seated in folding chairs/ Hi-ball collision. (Why not fault flatbed driver…ghee whiz…every year they were protected and he was watching his loaded trailer with unsecured people). Looks bad for everyone. RR is pointed to, why not a slow order?
Actual cause: Police officer’s retirement. An alert policeman ALWAYS voluntarily notified RR if a city parade route crossed RR. It was NOT his job but he did so due to common sense. His being retired, no city police protocol called on that task. Hopefully that has changed. Huge example of left hand not knowing what the right is doing. tragic sad fatal accident. Always remembered in the city of past history there. Bad Guy RR. News headline “Train hits Parade” endmrw0416250959
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We had a local manager who would notify the railroad when the town he lived in, and I lived in at the time, had their annual celebration. The RR would put out a bulletin for extra bell and whistle. The danger was pedestrian traffic going over the tracks from one side of town to the other.
I used to see more of those type of bulletins, but not so much now. (Once that manager retired, the annual celebration continues, but the bulletins ceased.) One location, on the old RI “Short Line” or Spine Line to all the exCNW heathens, even stopped rail traffic for a couple hours to allow a parade to cross the tracks.
One farmer who was going to have some temporary heavy traffic, to access some grain bins, crossing the tracks at a farmer’s crossing notified the railroad. At those lightly used private crossings vegetation control isn’t the best. The railroad put out a crossing protection order requiring 15 mph until occupied, stop not required. It also required sonding the horn where trains normally don’t
Jeff
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Jeff, what you exampled was a day and age when common sense prevailed. Today: heh, ain’t my job. Sad but true. NO accountability/responsibilty.
BTW This makes me think about the tragedy in TX recently regarding a nearby high school student being a fatal crossing victim. Another thread, but the “outcome” of the accident has created a knee jerk reaction that will be costly and NOT effective. Did I mention common sense earlier? endmrw0416251452
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Following my above post: See Trains Newswire Mar 27, 2025. In which TX Senate proposes a Pedestrian grade crossing bridge Cost $350M. This article includes an aerial view that “tells” a story of how common sense is not being used. This is insane IMHO! My post on this forum, this subject and reasoning for common sense, BEING RESEARCHED and posted asap. endmrw0416251504
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My bad. Previous comment was after the Newswire article and not this forum. However the comment I made reinforces the comment above by Jeff (common sense). Whereas what the TX Senate wants to spend $350M on, I dispute:
March 27, 2025 at 1:16 pm
This subject includes the death of a person. For that reason I am cautious of saying anything. It is a fact, check your LOCAL news. Young and old alike (me included) make STUPID mistakes. Some are simple and innocent, others are DEADLY. That’s a fact. In this case, there is an attempt to mitigate the danger. As has been testified to in comments here, this is an age old problem.
A VERY realistic observation was also made in these comments (Larry, long ago, when a youngster he did RR unsafe tresspassing).
Money spent, overpass walkway completed, still….who wants to walk up… then down when staying at ground level is easier and quicker?
From the aerial picture I would think the young man crossed a highway (the one that intersects at an angle w/4 lane). Did he pay attention to the traffic signal protecting pedestrians? If so, why not the RR? After all surely there was enough warning. The highway crossing gates, horn blaring, I’m sorry but this is like so many other tragic deaths. Unavoidable and the grieving parents are not by themselves. Check your local news and there are MANY other grieving parents. endmrw0327251312
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