I was reading the CTT product review of the Williams Girls train Hudson in the last issue. It made reference to the Hudson review done in the May 06 CTT. I noticed in the last issue the Girls trains had a slow average speed of 39.6 smph but an identical Williams Hudson reported a slow speed of 9.6 smph in the May 06 issue. These engines are identical except for the color paint. Why was there such a difference in slow speed. 30 smph seems like a lot. Was this a misprint or was the Girls train locomotive just not broken in good.
Sorry, I am being lazy tonight, so I did not go back and check the review(s), but wasn’t the Girls Train based on the Lionel 2037-500 engine which I believe was a Pacific type and not a hudson. You may be talking about two different engines here. I could be wrong…wife tells me all the time, but you may want to re-check.
Dennis
Dennis the 2037-500 was the pink locomotive…That wheel arrangement was a 2-6-4…that is neither a pacific or a Hudson…rather than call them an “it”" I call them a “Lionel”…Lionel Lines was the only railroad in the USA that used a 2-6-4 to any degree,so I named them after that railroad…BDT
I don’t think you understoond the question. I am talking about the Williams reproduction Girls train, not the Lionel issue of it. Both Williams engines in the articles were Hudsons.
BDT, the little-known name for a 2-6-4 is an “Adriatic”. Although they were never used here, some were made in the US for export to that area. (Could it be called a “Cificap”–a backwards Pacific?..
The Williams 2056 and the Williams 2037 girl’s locomotive are identical, except for the paint AND the pilot truck. The 2056 has a 4-wheeled truck, but the 2037 has a 2-wheeled truck. The pinky is essentially a Hudson with 2 less wheels on the pilot truck.
Jim
The Williams “Pink” Hudson uses there copy of the Lionel body shell which started with the “226E” in 1938, became the 726 Berkshire in 1946, and the 2046 “Baby Hudson” in 1950. In the “Pink” train they install the 2 wheel lead (pilot) truck, but it’s still the “Baby Hudson” body. Lionel had used the smaller 2037 in its Girl’s Set. All have plastic tenders
Williams also makes the larger, Scale Size, copy of the Lionel 773 Hudson. This may be the locomotive with the slower, more controled speed you refer to. This also has a cast tender.
DMUinCT, if it had Magnatraction, I would buy one. Speaking of which, how does the Williams 773 match up against a Lionel with magnatraction?
Thanks for the education regarding the rest.
Dennis
No mistake, when I tested the locomotive in May, I did the speed test twice since it was lower than I’d expected. The Pink 2-6-4 was about what I’d expect - though if you use TMCC in conventional mode, you’d shave some mph off for a lower speed.
Bob,Thanks for the info on that name…That loco must have been named after the Adriatic Sea…“Cificap” would make a classic name for our classic Lionel versions…
Okiechoochoo,sorry for getting a little ----off track ----on the thread
BDT
BDT, not a problem, Bob Keller answered my question. Thanks.
I believe if you look back at different times and in different catalogs Lionel called 2-6-4 steam locomotives “Prairies” and “Mohawks.”
Yes,they have been called a Mohawak in the Lionel catalogs…The real world Mohawks were the NYC 4-8-2 locomotives…Being that the NYC, the Pennsy, and the SF roadnames were so popular on Lionel products, it would be understandable if some of the locomotive nicknames were borrowed also…The Prairie nickname could have followed the 2026, when it retained the 2026 number when it was updated to a 2-6-4 from it’s original 2-6-2 Prairie wheel configuration…
In a like sense, the 2035 2-6-4 has been referred to as a K4 Pacific…
I have to chuckle when this topic comes up in a conversation…Lionel also made a giraffe car to be pulled behind these same locos, so total real world accuracy may not have been applied to the lionel products as far as names…
But now I may be confused,Did any railroad really have a giraffe car??
Anyone have any info on the Circus trains???
BDT
I’d like to know what transformers are used for these tests, given that this topic on fast minimum speed comes up from time to time. It has been mentioned many times in reference to the truck mounted DC can motored diesels like the K-Line MP-15, Alco FA and S-2 as well as similar Lionel locos - that these types of locos run like jack rabbits.
If you use a modern transformer with a zero starting voltage, or the best Lionel transformer ever made (my opinion), the old reliable 1033 wired to the track at the B-U post setting, all these locos that supposedly run like jack rabbits can all run slowly. This also goes for Williams locos too, so long as the transformer is 6amp or in that neighborhood due the the Williams circuit board reverse. The 1033 runs Williams locos just fine too.
My pet-peeve with the CTT reviews is that every semi-scale loco reviewed comes with a comment under the “Cons” that it isn’t scale or will look odd with scale stuff. Duhhh?!! For some of us, non-scale is a HUGE PLUS!!
It’s a simple fact that most buyers of the more expensive scale sized/detailed locos and cars are seasoned older buyers who know their trains, and already know what is and isn’t a TOY train. I personally find the “editorializing” a little unnecessary. Obviously I think there’s an aim to inform the buyer, especially the novice. But these non-scale locos are most likely to be purchased by the beginner or the novice or the budget operator.
To be fair, maybe with the next review of the latest scale Atlas, Lionel or MTH loco there is a comment under “Cons” that these locos have fragile detailing that breaks easily, are overpriced, don’t sell nearly as well as traditionally non-scale trains, will not run on 027 track and will look odd with traditionally sized trains. And actually, most of these cons are also proven facts.
As with the closing line of the current review of the MTH SD70ACe: This big fella moves to the
BDT in Minnesota,
Of course there were giraffe cars! Check out the link below. The salient text is:
"In August,1929, two giraffes arrived from Africa, named Neck and Neck. They had to be transported from New Hampshire to Detroit in specially constructed giraffe railroad cars. According to a News article of July 1929, the floors of two flat cars were lowered 2-1/2 feet and a small deck house was mounted on each car to afford a neck rest.
“While the train track is clear,”, the story said, “the giraffes will be permitted to stretch their necks at will and look over the scenery. As they approach a low bridge or tunnel, the (keeper) will reel in the giraffe’s neck and attach it to the padded rest until the passage has been made safely. When they get to Detroit, they will have two taxis awaiting them which are actually underslung trailers ordinarily used to transport steam shovels.”
http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=204&category=locations
BF,Thanks for the link,that story made my day…now a have a legitimate reason to buy two more railcars!!
thanks again,BDT
Excellent comments brainel027! The part of indicating if it is scale, traditions, etc. in the text would be an improvement on the cons. We must always remember that one man’s junk is another man’s treasure!
Brian,
I regularly get irate e-mails and letters from guys who buy the semi-scale or traditional locomotives - and they get mad that it isn’t right at home with larger scale cars that they’ve previously bought.
Where I look at it is SEMI-scale, they want it to be semi-SCALE, if you catch my drift. Even though size and even dimensions might be specified in a given review, their mind’s eye sees something else.
I can’t put “Won’t look right with scale equipment” under pros, and only mentioning it in the text can get easily overlooked. A lot of guys see something, buy it, then discover it is way to large, long, tall for their layout or trains.
While I’ll consider adding something like “traditional” to the info box - using the Lionel LionMaster Cab-Forward as an example, it is classified as a traditional engine, the retail price pushes $850 (to me, not a traditional train price), yet the scale is smallish, yet the overall footprint is way beond a stereotypical O-27 layout with 2018s and 0-4-0s. So someone with a small layout could buy it because it said “traditional,” just to find it doesn’t work for them.
Thanks Bob. Believe me, I understand to some degree where you are coming from. I was in the newspaper business for many years. News is news, facts are facts and opinions are for the editorial page. Part of the proper purpose of the review is to inform the reader about the product as unbiasedly as humanly possible.
The sizes of products can be a little confusing to the novice. I certainly assume though that experienced buyer would understand the difference between traditional, semi-scale and full scale. It surprises me that you would get emails from these more seasoned train buyers who cannot figure this out. Of course, it would also stand to reason that some of these buyers would be more vocal, as they are so on the other train forum. Though the train companies share some blame for trying to pass off semi-scale products as full scale.
I’ve been told personally by reps and company insiders that there is a very intentional omission of the “027” phrase from their catalogs for fear of losing sales. Even though a scale item may in fact clear 027 curves and switches, the term 027 has a strong connection to “toy” trains.
All of this certainly makes the review writer’s job somewhat more of a challenge. But my point simply put, is that there are many buyers who do not see smaller size as a Con, as mentioned with the CTT review of the Williams 027 proportioned Alco FA copy of the Lionel version. The idea of a “size category” in the stand alone features box strikes me as a great idea. That would state the product size area without the potential editorializing.
While the train companies product push is obviously towards scale and high end, everything I have read and heard from train company insiders tells me that scale product sales are still the MINORITY of train sales. You’d never know it though from looking at the catalogs. I’m sure the bottom 3 Lionel sets (Polar Express, Pennsy Flyer and NYC Flyer sets) sell far far better than most scale item
Who ever said Train Cars have to be the same size! On real trains they are all sizes.
