Join the discussion on the following article:
Cumbres & Toltec improvement plan includes new roundhouse
Excellent management group to be put in charge of C&TS. Allen Harper has a great track record at Durango & has the resources to sustain this operation. There are real opportunities for synergy with D&SNG.
Just what the C&T needs: concerts, cultural heritage presentations, and a dance floor, not to mention fast-food and gift shops. Silliness, methinks. Get rid of the “Scenic” appelation and back to railroading! What next? Pink locomotives and “Thomas, the Tank Engine”?
Mr. Bertholf:
Being from Texas you should know better - American Heritage Railways is STILL the operator of the Texas State Railroad - they DID NOT leave it “a mess” and it will operate a complete schedule through at least October.
I live 40 miles from the railroad and I am well aware of the challenges that AHR faced when they assumed management of the TSR from the State of Texas.
Challenges and money losses faced by AHR? Yes, but they lost considerably less that what was lost by the State of Texas and the operation and programs are considerably improved from when the State of Texas managed the railroad.
Mr. Hays, not everyone who visits these operations is a railfan. If catering strictly to fans was enough to pay the bills, then we’d see nothing but photo freights. But those don’t begin to cover the costs of operating steam in the 21st Century, nor of building new facilities to support this activity. Ask any railroad museum around the country how much revenue a Thomas the Tank Engine weekend brings in. If they weren’t lucrative, they wouldn’t hold them. I’m a locomotive engineer working in Chicago area commuter service and I have at least one grandson who absolutely loves trains, but he’s not at the interest level that you or I might be. He loves things like Thomas. My railroad still operates two steam locomotives, something they spend money on for the good will it generates, not necessarily because it contributes to the bottom line of their freight business. Variety may be the spice of life, but it is also a good business practice to generate revenue from more than just one source. I’m not trying to sound patronizing here, and if I do, I apologize, but you’ve got to realize that this isn’t just a labor of love. It is a business model that must turn a profit or fail in its effort. I like what I do for a living, but if they didn’t pay me well to do it, there’s no way I’d keep it up on a daily basis. Railroads do not exist of themselves. They are built to serve a region with all of its cultural heritage and historical tradition. When that is removed, you’ve just got trains without much other purpose. Not everybody’s going to pay to see that.
Mr. Hays, not everyone who visits these operations is a railfan. If catering strictly to fans was enough to pay the bills, then we’d see nothing but photo freights. But those don’t begin to cover the costs of operating steam in the 21st Century, nor of building new facilities to support this activity. Ask any railroad museum around the country how much revenue a Thomas the Tank Engine weekend brings in. If they weren’t lucrative, they wouldn’t hold them. I’m a locomotive engineer working in Chicago area commuter service and I have at least one grandson who absolutely loves trains, but he’s not at the interest level that you or I might be. He loves things like Thomas. My railroad still operates two steam locomotives, something they spend money on for the good will it generates, not necessarily because it contributes to the bottom line of their freight business. Variety may be the spice of life, but it is also a good business practice to generate revenue from more than just one source. I’m not trying to sound patronizing here, and if I do, I apologize, but you’ve got to realize that this isn’t just a labor of love. It is a business model that must turn a profit or fail in its effort. I like what I do for a living, but if they didn’t pay me well to do it, there’s no way I’d keep it up on a daily basis. Railroads do not exist of themselves. They are built to serve a region with all of its cultural heritage and historical tradition. When that is removed, you’ve just got trains without much other purpose. Not everybody’s going to pay to see that.
I wonder if a re-creation of the “Fall Stock Extra” would generate the exitement of a return to an annual event for about 70 years?
Bet photographers would turn out by the droves. Imagine a train made up of 15-20 stock cars, and 4 steam locos getting them over Cumbres Pass!
BTW, haven’t been to Chama in many years. Are the cattle pens still standing? Any others on the line?
Having been on the Durango (during Railfest last year), the Rio Grande Scenic (during its Photo Spectacular) and C&T all last August, I can see the attraction of some of these plans. The roundhouse project sounds similar to what you see at Durango.
The entertainment center sounds similar to what RGS has created at Fir, where they haul passengers to a concert in the mountains (accessible only be rail). By the way, I was entirely, pleasantly surprised by that trip, especially the east end in the mountains.
Frankly, though, I think the amphitheater should be at Osier — accessible only by rail. Cumbres is accessible via the highway that passes right by. A lot of people might bypass the train ride completely and just drive to Cumbres for whatever is planned there.
I agreed there is some untapped revenue at both Antonito and Chama because there is not much of a gift shop or refreshments available at either end.
I would hope, though, that none of the organizations over-extend themselves, thus putting the trains and their operations at financial risk.
Mr. Christian:
I go to Chama twice a year (springtime in the Rockies in May; the turning of the aspen the first week of October).
I believe the cattle pens are still there - on the south end of Chama if I remember correctly.
The drive across the mountains from Chama to Antonito is beautiful when the aspen have turned - and I time my trip along the drive in order to sit on the side of the road and watch the two daily C&T trains go through the horseshoe curve in the valley that is several miles out of Chama.
Being from Texas it is quite a treat to sit in the cool temperature of an October day and watch steam trains in the mountains.
This group left the Texas State Railroad a mess.
They borrowed money they can’t repay… Watch out C&T
THIS IS A GREAT MOVE ON ALLEN HARPERS COMMITMENT TO STEAM TOURIST RAILROADING. I AM THE FATHER OF ONE EMPLOYE OF HIS DURANGO OPERATION AND I HEAR A LOT ABOUT HIS COMMITMET TO DO IT RITE. I HAVE RIDEN BOTH AND THEY ARE GREAT
Hmmmm. They are building a new round house and turntable and people are complaining because there will be a gift shop and other money making efforts to pay got it??? Also, having searched for breakfast in the greater Chama metro area, I can verify that a kid friendly restaurant is needed. D&S management should be great for the C&T.
The item that makes the C&TS a better experience than the D&S is that a person may wander around the yard at any time for no charge. It is especially interesting to watch the morning departure being made ready with coaling, watering and train assembly. None of that is available on the D&S (although I think a fee based guided tour is available). The C&TS had a bunch of old rolling stock to look through.
I sure hope the casual nature of the yard visit remains available. On our rides on the D&S we were parked in the depot until the train backed in, put aboard and away we went. BTW, Osier can be reached by road. It is a 30 minute ride from Antonito on some rough road but a car with a decent clearance can do it. Great trout fishing on the Rio De Las Pinos. (Pardon my spelling).
The item that makes the C&TS a better experience than the D&S is that a person may wander around the yard at any time for no charge. It is especially interesting to watch the morning departure being made ready with coaling, watering and train assembly. None of that is available on the D&S (although I think a fee based guided tour is available). The C&TS had a bunch of old rolling stock to look through.
I sure hope the casual nature of the yard visit remains available. On our rides on the D&S we were parked in the depot until the train backed in, put aboard and away we went. BTW, Osier can be reached by road. It is a 30 minute ride from Antonito on some rough road but a car with a decent clearance can do it. Great trout fishing on the Rio De Las Pinos. (Pardon my spelling).