American Heritage Railways, operator of Colorado’s Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad, will terminate its agreement with the line’s owner, the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad Commission.
In a letter to the C&TSRC, American Heritage Chairman and CEO Allen C. Harper cited differences in business strategies as the primary cause for the split. Specifically, Harper notes, “We must be given the responsibility and authority to do things without constant second guessing and micro-management of an authority or commission. The governmental and political realities of the C&TSR do not lend themselves well for my company to be successful at that railroad.”
So anybody have the full story on this? I am wondering what exactly is going on here…
We must be given the responsibility and authority to do things without constant
second guessing and micro-management of an authority or commission.
I am wondering what second guessing and micro management was involved…
Having ridden both the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec, my biggest impression regarding the difference between teh two was that the Durango seemed like a much more commercial operation (it was still greatly enjoyable though), the Cumbres & Toltec seemed much more like a museum more interested in preservation and authenticity over profits (which I really really liked). Yet museums still do need to make money though or they can go by the wayside as well…
So I am wondering if anyone knows specifically what the points of contention were…
I don’t know the specific issues, but the whole dispute seems to revolve around whether to preserve the historical character, or to add entertainment attractions to broaden the appeal in order to attracted a larger market. This issue has been the heart of many heated discussions on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum.
One faction says this: The C&TS is too remote to attract enough railfans to support it, and the majority of people who ride it are not railfans. So the answer is to market to tourists who are not necessarily railfans. And the assumption is that to attract those non-railfans, a wider base of entertainment is needed beyond the train ride. The opposing faction says that this creation of an entertainment complex destroys the historical fabric of the authentic railroad experience, which is the point of the basic attraction in the first place.
Mr. Harper is in the faction that believes a wider base of entertainment is needed. This will put him on a collision couse with the people in charge of upholding the historical fabric.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense. One of the things I liked about the C&TS is that we could go anywhere on the property - into shops, etc with no restrictions (this was about 3 years ago) while on the D&S this was not the case.
But I still don’t see why both worlds can’t co-exist - personally I tend to go the more preservationist route, but you can be preservationist all you want but without income your little museum will sit and rust… a shame that a good balance between the two couldn’t have been found.
The entertainment complex faction running the C&TS always says that most people riding the train don’t care about historical authenticity; they don’t even care whether a steam locomotive pulls the train. My opinion is that this condescending characterization of the ridership is simply a shallow a ploy to further the position of the pro-entertainment faction. And it is easy to be in that faction if you don’t see the point of historical authenticity and preservation, which many of them do not. It is easy to be in the tourist railroad business and miss the point of historical preservation.
But, in any case, the battle focus has shifted to attracting non-railfans. So the assumption that is being made is that non-railfans will not be attracted to the train ride. I think that is a hugely mistaken assumption. I believe there are enough non-railfans in Denver and other nearby areas to fully support the train ride, and would gladly do so if the attraction were simply presented to them in a way they could immediately understand.
Even though C&TS acknowledges that they have to market to non-railfans, I do not believe they are doing that. I believe their marketing speaks exclusively to railfans, but they just don’t realize it because they themselves look at the world through the railfan lens.
So, it is a false choice to conclude that in order for the railroad to survive, it has to broaden its entertainment draw by adding modern, non-railroad attractions. Going down that road could kill the business as easy as anything else. So I would say they are better off with Harper throwing in the towel before he did any damage.
If the area is too remote to attract railfans, who is it attracting? It might not attract railfans who are strictly train counters. but otherwise Colorado has been a railfan magnet for years. I was not aware that the Durango & Silverton had entertainment (maybe Silverton is considered a theme park). If people want to have entertainment with their train ride, they can ride the Rio Grande Scenic out of Alamosa. It’s diesel, so they can get there and back quicker. Having entertainment is getting to be as common as dinner trains once were.
I’ve ridden both the D&S and C&T about 3 years ago and here are my impressions:
The C&T was much like a museum, and that’s the goal that they strived to reach. What I loved most about it was you could go anywhere on the grounds - no restrictions. Also, during the train trip itself there was narration with historical facts about the line - the kind of stuff that rail fans and rail historians would love. Chama and Antonito are both in the middle of nowhere, but that adds to the mystique of the RR. It was also really nice to have lunch at Osier at the lunchhouse. However, a common theme I heard there, from both the crew and volunteers is “we don’t have enough money”
The D&S is much more commercialized than the C&T. There were more knick-knacks to buy on the train, there was a photographer going around snapping everyone’s photo for sale later, they have that zipline adventure thing they make sure everyone notices halfway through the ride, and a much much more extensive giftshop. Not to mention when you reach silverton you can easily spend a ton of money in silverton in a flash with all the shops there (now try spending your money in Chama or Antonito, there is no place to even spend it!). However, on the D&S, it didn’t seem like they were always hard for money…
I think more commercialization would make the C&T a much better RR IF the extra money was put back into the RR. The C&T has a TON of stuff that needs restoring, and that all takes $$$. On the D&S, the only thing that really annoyed me was the fact that we couldn’t go anywhere on the shop complex (blame the lawyers!), but beyond that I understood that all the commercialization is necessary to run a profitable operation. Heck, you can even run a diesel train if you want to, just don’t get rid of the steam! As long as I get my steam ride, what’s it to me if someone else goes in a diesel?
My point is, you could commercialize the C&T without taki
Yes there are train rides with entertainment, but the point being made by the entertainment advocates associated with C&TS is they want to save their railroad from insolvency, so they want entertainment added to their railroad. And the C&TS entertainment advocates feel that their railroad is in more need of entertainment than other railroads because C&TS is relatively more remote.
It is almost as if they believe that adding entertainment is a sure fired solution because it creates more reasons for a patron to visit. But does it really? If you add too much entertainment, people who are turned off by gaudy, modern attractions diluting the historical authenticity might decide not to visit. And even entertainment costs money to install, and run. It adds its own overhead cost.
I really think they need to stop making blanket assumptions about their ridership, and really do some hard-core market studies. They ought to be asking their patrons what their preferences are. Just adding entertainment seems like a knee jerk reaction th
I think it was more a case of “cannibalize the history”, as they proposed building an amphitheater atop Cumbres Pass. The summit is the most historic spot along the line. I believe such intrusive construction would destroy the unique historical aspect of the line. A previous thread covers some of this: