I know…I KNOW…this has been asked before many times, however, MRs search engine kinda sucks. I asked about F units in various ways and kept getting posts related to someone’s problems with an Athearn Genesis. I asked for product reviews and, once again, I got reviews of structures, trees, articulateds and other stuff. Great help! Rather than read every post on the site I thought I’d just ask the old question again.
What I would like to know is what you think of your: Genesis, Stewart, BLI, P2K/Walthers or Inter Mountain F units. Which seems to be the preferred runner and which has the best sound. I have heard the original Genesis engines had a crappy sound system. Has that been rectified? I’m kinda hung up on Soundtraxx as being the best available sound so muted engines are probably more of interest to me.
If you wait a little while Stewart will be putting Tsunamis in their locos. They have been using Loksound. Even though they are very good decoders with great prime mover and superior motor control they lack horn volume. Hopefully Loksound will correct the horn volume in the future. But the Stewarts are great runners with good details. My second choice would be P2K with the QSI decoders. BLI is not listing an active F unit. It seems the Blueline series is almost discontinued. I have no Genesis but they seem kind of light on their feet and have no experience with Inter mountain.
I own about twenty or more of the original Stewart F units with Genesis and Highliner shells on some of those. They operate great and smooth and some have sound installed. Some of our group purchased the new Stewarts with theie own built chassis instead of the Kato built chassis models and we have not major problems with any of those. They tend to run very well and handle sound.
My F units includes almost as many early Genesis models that had to be reworked extensively to get the same results. The first releases of the Genesis F units had gears that did not match causing very jerky operation. They all required new wheel sets, but I did purchase some of the later units for the WP Zephyr train that seemed to have corrected the issue of jerking. The original MRC sound is gone since they started using Soundtraxx some time ago. Soundtraxx is hard to beat, but the new Walthers horn sounds are more pl
I have various F units from the manufactures you mentioned:
Walthers P2K: These run as smooth as silk and are very heavy which gives them great pulling power, the QSI sound in my mind is lacking but then again I prefer tsunami. The only thing I dont like about them is that the front windows mount with clear tabs.
Athearn Genesis: The early engines run pretty rough and require some work to make them smooth, the later runs dont seem to have the same issues. The MRC sound decoders are junk and I have had nothing but problems with them the new engines come with soundtraxx, but I can live with the drive issues because I think that the genesis/highliner shells are the best in the hobby and the kits can be built into any phase of the f-unit.
BLI: Overall these run ok but have room for improvement, the shells are not up to par with the genesis/highliner shells but acceptable.
Intermountian: These run fairly well and have decent detail although the grab irons are a little oversized.
Stewart: By far the kato drives are the smoothest runners of all the f units currently available we have F units running on the layout now for 12+ years, the shells are pretty basic but these do accept the highliner shells on their drives.
I have a F7 PCM/BLI set with factory LokSound and quite loud. Lashed up mode. Only the A unit has the decoder. Had to reduce the volume. A unit, one speaker and motor, B unit, two speakers and motor.
Just installed two Tsunami/speakers/ LED’s in a F3 BLI refurbished DC only, no lights, both powered A/B set with a one inch speaker in each. $99 for the set.
Great running all four in a consist. Each unit weighs aboit 1.25 lbs. Almost five lbs total weight for all four and will pull more than the club layout has room for.
I have a more recent Genesis F3A (DC, no sound) with the improved gears and Roco motor. It runs every bit as well as my Atlas and Kato diesels, and it looks fantastic.[:D] The only details missing are the MU hoses and coupler cut levers, but those are easy to add later. The newest ones use Tsunami sound and DCC, so they should sound as good as they look.[:D]
I have a F-7 A-B set built from P1K F units with Intermountain shells and Atlas dual mode decoders, no sound!!!. They will pull a very long string of cars around the club I belong to’s big layout which includes a long sweeping curve on a 2% grade. They are quiet and also run well with my Stewart F-3’s The F-7’s are painted in the late Southern Tuxedo scheme while the F-3’s are in the earlier green scheme. I liked the challenge of building the Intermountain kits and wish I could get more.
The Genesis F-units use entirely different trucks and gearing than the standard Blue Box drive, so installing an Ernst kit would be impossible. But I do believe it’s possible to use Kato trucks in place of the Genesis originals. The Genesis F-unit and SD70 trucks are direct copies of Kato’s trucks, and I’ve actually managed to fit Kato SD80 trucks in my SD75M before.
I have 2 Stewart’s F 9’s (before Browser) and 4 PK 1 F3’s. Far as running quality they are pretty much the same. Track well, pull great and paint is good. Both lack small detail which is fine with me.
Far as endurance, 3 of my PK need new motors. Not bad with well over 400 plus hours of hauling heavy freight. My Stewart’s, one might need a motor, it ate a decoder and it was pulled. It was making a grinding sound, I pulled the shell, oil the bearings and sound would go away for a hour or so then come back. What disappointed me is at the max it has 80 hours on it.
Both are well made engines and will but more of either if I have need of something.
I ordered three dozen wheel sets from Kato and installed them into the Genesis units. They were available and fit into the Genesis truck sets and solved the problem.
Well, I don’t own any Bowser/Stewart F units, but I do have most of the rest of the better offerings - Genesis, Intermountain, Proto2000 and the briefly available PCM F3’s.
All are nicely detailed and run very well. None of my Genesis locos have any issues. For me, based on what is out there, if I was buying today, based on availablity, I would likely buy Intermountain.
I freelance and they support unlettered versions better than anyone right now. My most recent purchase was their new FP7’s - very nice.
I was dissapointed that the undecorated version of the new Proto2000 F7’s came with the “modernized” shell, with the skirts removed. I “restored” the skirts with parts from another brand since Walthers had no “as built” shells to sell.
The Genesis/Highliner is truely the most accurate/detailed one out there, but Athearn does not seem to have the seperate drives readily available all the time, and Highliner shell kits seem hit and miss.
For something I want already lettered, I would likley buy any of them - as long as it comes DC (DCC ready) with no sound.
I’m not really crazy about the slower gears in the new Proto2000’s, but they still run fast enough - at least for F units. If I want any more E units I will look for older Proto NOS.
FortyNiner - I would stay away from the Ernst gears even for an old Blue Box Athearn. I have a set of BB F7’s I super detailed years ago. They have Helix Humper can motors and Proto2000 wheel sets and run as good as anything - with the factory gears. Its more about a good higher torque motor and better pickup. The old Athearn wheels have too much resistance.
CZ, That’s a nice piece of information about the Kato geared wheelsets in the Genesis F’s…Thanks
Thanks also to Sheldon for the info you provided, I have about all makes now “except” the BLI’s and agree with you about the Intermountains, they are really nice looking engines and run well. I have noticed that their chassis looks an awfully lot like a Proto 1000 chassis but their shells just appear to me to be a bit “finer” than the others.
So far I have not experienced any major problems with the Genesis engines other than some excess flashing in the gears ocassionally, cleaned that up and they are running nicely now…
Thanks, Everyone, for all the very useful information presented here. Seems like Stewart/Bowser gets the nod. A personal answer recommended them with the Highliners shells. I haven’t checked on them for availability but the Stewart/Bowser mechanisms seem to be no problem.
I can’t believe how many F-units are being made & sold! Seems like every manufacturer has their version for sale. No wonder we can’t get an Alco T-6 in HO…everyone’s busy making Fs. LOL
Thanks again for helping me with a tough decision.
Well, just a last word or so in here from me. I only have two diesel sets, but one of them is a Genesis F-3 A/B set for Rio Grande–DC no sound, but those units are beautifully detailed, and VERY powerful and smooth running throughout their speed ranges. I bought them specifically to power my Rio Grande “Prospector”, and as such, they’re flawless.
