New to this forum, forgive me if this has already been covered. I just bought a CW-80 from a Polar Express set and I set it up to test it. Within 3-5 minutes it started making a fairly loud humming or whirring noise, almost like an internal fan kicked on to cool the insides. From looking at this thing though, it does not look like it would have a fan. Is this the normal noise this unit makes or is something wrong with mine?
Thank you.
It does have a fan and it does make noise. Usually the fan starts as soon as you plug it in. The CW-80 is a nice transformer but one that has had quality problems.
Be sure never to leave a transformer plugged in when you are not around (I use a power strip).
Jim H
I cant get rid of mine. I am close to just trashing it. The CW-80 IS BY FAR, THE WORST TOY TRAIN TRANSFORMER ON THE MARKET TODAY.
I agree with Eric.
While the CW80 is one of the best looking small toy train transformers around, it is by far the most problematic. More has probably been written about this transformer than any other that has even been produced, and it seems that most of the writings are negative (including mine).
Use it to power your accessories, or some such, if you care to, but get yourself a better–meaning more reliable–transformer to operate your trains.
Also makes a fine doorstop or paperweight.
I haven’t had any trouble with my CW-80, works fine.
Stan.
Give it time, Stan. . . give it time! [;)]
I use two CW-80 to power my Christmas and temporary layouts. Have never had a problem with either. As far as I know here is the status of CW-80 transformer.
That is about it. For sets the CW-80 works o.k. but the long term reliability is questionable. I would not buy one, but the ones I recieve in sets I use with great results.
Jim H
One other thing. In the past Lionel was real good about sending out a replacement transformer (without you needing to ship it back). I do not know if they are still doing that though.
Jim H
BobS,
First and foremost, welcome to the forum!
With your initial question, you have innocently walked into possibly the most controversial topic currently on the toy train forums. The discussions have been spirited at a minimum, and sometimes have devolved to downright nasty. This is not your fault, so don’t be discouraged – yet.
There are literally reams that have been written about the CW-80. I am responsible for a good deal of it. My experiences with the CW-80’s have been very good indeed. Keep in mind, that in customer service one normally sees 40 or so complaints for every accolade, regardless of the product or service. Ask any plumber.
Try using the “search” or “find” feature on this and the other major forum. You will find more than you want to read. I would be honored if you would take a look at some of my posts on the subject.
I am willing to work with you, either here or in private communications, but first I need to know that you are serious. (I have extended this offer several times only to have the person who posed the question(s) drop off the radar.)
If you don’t accept any other advice, please believe this:
(1) The CW-80 is unlike any other transformer out there. It’s better in some ways, worse in others, but it is certainly different. It seems to be a very safe transformer, suitable for small train sets. It has power similar to the highly regarded 1033*, but is probably not as rugged. If you run it without thoroughly understanding it’s quirks, you can damage it.
(2) No matter how much or how little experience you have had with toy trains, you absolutely need to study the Owners Manual word-for-word, including the warranty section. If you don’t have a full 12 page manual devoted exclusively to the CW-80, you need to get one. They can be read online at Lionel.com, Customer Service. I advise printing it out. (Don’t take my word for it. One of the most esteemed and reliable forum members, “Chuck” of Plymouth, MI, has made t
YOU ARE LUCKY!
I wouldn’t dispute anything Wolverine49 wrote, and he’s obviously a skilled CW80 enthusiast who knows his stuff.
However, I will say this:
The fact that so much even has to be written and understood about something as simple as a fairly basic toy train transformer–something that should be plug-and-play simple, regardless of whose trains you’re running–should tell you something.
As I’ve said before, I really like the outward appearance of the CW80 (I had two of them; now have one). But I would never again consider using that transformer to actually run my trains–not when there are so many more reliable alternatives available. I may use it at some point to power accessories (I’m now using several small K-Line transformers for that task), but that’s about it.
Received one in our Thomas set. It was dead out of the box. The dealer replaced it with no questions and the replacement has worked perfectly for almost a year now. The compact case design is very nice and I would like to see lionel Address the accessory post issue so this transformer can get the credit it is capable of. I don’t think that I would trust the slow breaker in a postwar 1033 with modern locomotives.
BobS,
I took a glance at your user profile. By any chance are you in a country that uses something other tha 60 hz. electric A.C. power? There have been discussions about that situation on the forums along with some proposed solutions.
Allan Miller,
Thanks for the kind words. I am actually not a true proponent of the CW-80. A review of my many postings (often lengthy) on this and the other forum will show that I have never recommended buying one. My posts are aimed primarily at those who already have one and didn’t get (or haven’t read) the full, dedicated, 12 page owner’s manual. The Lionel mantra “The CW-80 is unlike any other transformer Lionel has ever offered” (or words to that effect) ought to have been more of a tip-off than it was. Even when it works entirely as designed it is quirky. Under those circumstances some grow to like it, (as I have done) and some don’t. And I am inclined to rant at those who have no personal experience with it, but who criticize it anyway. Obviously that group does not include you.
I spent 30 years in a “helping profession.” One thing I learned was that you can’t help people who won’t let you. It’s frustrating, but that’s the way it is.
I feel very badly for those children whose “big holiday” has been (or soon will be) spoiled by a defective-out-of-the-box CW-80 (increasingly rare, I think) and even worse for those who have a perfectly good one, but don’t realize it because they don’t understand just how new and different it is.
If parents would treat it like a new VCR, and read the instructions before trying to fool with it, they’ed be a whole lot better off – especially if they did this “homework” prior to the big day.
The CW-80 really isn’t complicated to operate, but your point about being a questionable design for a “starter transformer” is well taken. Even though the Owner’s Manual* has a few errors and omissions, reading and understanding it would g
I agree with wolverine49 ! The CW-80 is fine to use (if you have one) and I like using mine. It sure beats most of the previous two piece set units out there. Also, now I know the accessory posts can be used if need be … with care. You learn something every day.
If you call Lionel they will probably mail you an owner’s manual.
If it works out of the box…and if all you are using it is to run your set…and if you have a light on the train circuit…it is a very nice transformer. I am not being sarcastic, I like it and I use it. The ergonomic design of the CW-80 is wonderful!
Jim H
I got my CW-80 with the Southern Freight set two years ago. I have since switched to TMCC with a TPC set up. My CW-80 is now happily powering the power to my Atlas Super-O switches and snap relays.
I was originally driving these circuits with a 1033 and had very sluggish and spotty performance. The switch would just not throw. I spent nearly 5 hours troubleshooting, as I did not start to have problems until I added a snap relay in parallel with the switch machines.
I believe that the CW-80 is much better at sourcing “the current rush” required by two low resistance relays in parallel. At least more so than the 1033.
Not to bash any transformer, I delegated the 1033 to power other, lower current accessories. The interesting thing to note is that the 1033 I believe is rated at 90W, 10W higher than the CW-80.
I believe it is truly selecting the right part for the job.
Well my stars and garters – a little support for a change!
Lionel will likely send out an owner’s manual (might be a charge) but I printed mine out from their website. Cheap and quick.
According to Jim Barrett of that other forum, a postwar wattage rating doesn’t equal a modern wattage rating. There are two different systems of measuremtn involved. The postwar transformers measured input wattage, a good portion of which is wasted as heat. Modern transformers are rated by output. As a rule of thumb, multiply postwar wattage by about 0.7 which puts the 1033 at about 63 watts real output, compared to the CW-80’s true 80. But the matter is complicated somewhat by differing waveforms between the two, the fact that a 1033 can be overdriven (especially if the circuit breaker is stuck) although it will get quite warm if you do, and the CW-80’s "ramp up throttle feature,* which makes it seem like it has less power than it does.
The CW-80 has a current-limiting “fold-back” circuit that seems to work well and keeps things cool as long as the fan runs. In an attempt to level the playing field, I connected fast-blow fuses of various values in series with the track and ran some semi-formal tests. Under these conditions my CW-80’s consistently outpulled my 1033’s, although not by a great deal. This little experiment was reported on one of the forums last summer. Your mileage may vary. I use one of my 1033’s daily as my bench-test transformer.
No surprise here: the CW-80 will not drive my one MTH PS-1 equipped steam loco; the 1033 will. Waveform issues, I understand. It does fine with non-PS equipped MTH locos.
The accessory post of the CW-80 will not run my O-22 switches because of the “lack of a common ground” issue. I am too stubborn to wire it up “backwards” because I like my whistle button to blow the whistle, and the bell button to blow the bell, and not vice-versa. Yes I have a Dymo labler and some nice bla
I was running two CW-80’s tonight to see if they would phase and run two seperate loops. Worked fine. Also ran a PS1 RS-27 with no problems. I have the outer loop with a fastrack terminal section with a light bulb. The only problem I have ran into with PS1 and the CW-80 is the voltage never drops to 0 volts with out a light bulb in the circuit which won’t allow it to switch directions.
riverrailfan,
The requirement for a minimal load on the CW-80, such as a light bulb*" or two, in order for the “Direction” button to work properly, is considered normal. and does not mean that the transformer is defective – just “different”. An illuminated caboose, passenger car, lockon, etc. seems to do just fine. I believe the Owner’s Manual is silent on this issue, however.
Speaking of the Manual, the latest edition (Product number 71-4198-250 dated 11/05) still contains an inconsistency in the hook-up guidlines on page 5. The text is correct, but Figure 2 is backwards. If you do it according to the diagram, your whistle button will ring the bell and vice-versa. Other than that, the Manual is pretty good – if you read it carefully, cover-to-cover. Every sentence is meaningful and the occasional interjections marked “Note!” or “Caution!” are not to be ignored.
The Manual offers the phone number 586-949-4100 (Customer Service) for questions but suggests that customers read the manual prior to calling. The manual can be viewed on-line at www.Lionel.com and/or downloaded and printed out.
The CW-80 Manual also offers repair services, as opposed to the limited replacement service that we all are aware of. This is in direct contrast to what they told me in a personal communication about a year ago. Has anybody had success getting a CW-80 repaired, under warranty or not?
*I think the load has to be an incandescent bulb as opposed to a light-emitting-diode (LED). Does anyone know for sure?
Since an LED will draw no significant current until its forward voltage is reached, a volt or two, and since that current will be quite low even then because of the ballast resistor, I doubt that an LED would do the trick. An incandescent lamp, on the other hand, has about one-tenth the resistance cold that it has when hot; so it makes an excellent sink for the leakage current from the CW80. A simple resistor would also work, but would consume ten times the power at full voltage that the equivalent lamp would.
Although the CW80 may work as it was designed, I believe that it is nevertheless legitimate to criticize that design. There are, as I see it, two substantial flaws in the design, both of which suggest that the designers were unfamiliar with the uses of toy train transformers:
The leakage current problem that requires the external lamp could easily have been avoided by a designer who knew that voltage must go completely to zero for modern reversing units to work properly. At the very least, anyone can see that the problem could have been avoided by putting the dummy lamp load inside the unit instead of outside.
The rewiring needed to make the track and accessory returns common while providing the proper DC polarities for whistle and bell is trivial. I think that anyone familiar with the ancient and very practical control-rail concept, which other Lionel products still use, would have understood this.
Other than these “features”, which are flaws in my book, do not require actual ownership to understand, and cannot be excused on the basis of their being (incorrectly) described in the owner’s manual, there are two other common complaints about the transformer:
The phase-control method of adjusting voltage that the CW80 uses is incompatible with some other manufacturers’ equipment; and the voltage cannot be read correctly without an expensive RMS voltmeter. These are not problems for users who do not care about the wave
lionelsoni (bob),
Interesting and informative post, as usual.
My reading is that you affirm at least the most important points of my (many) earlier posts:
For those who are blessed (or stuck) with a CW-80 or two, it pays to ignore your handy-dandy home voltmeter, read the manual, and forget about running (some) MTH products with it.