Just in from the Chicago Tribune, www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-Gary_train_fatalities_webjul08,0,481102.story WGN TV Chicago reports the family members pelted the news crews covering the story with rocks and bottles while covering the incident. One person was taken from the scene in handcuffs, 3 taken away in body bags, Again, Who pulled in front of Who?? When are these Neanderthals going to realize the train has the right of way?? These idiots rolled the dice and “crapped” out. I feel sorry for the train crew,Who probbaly could only sound the horn and watch it unfold.
it is not the trains fault like every one would like think it is. the cars they should have been patiience and wait for the train to pass. the red blinking lights mean stop. not go as fast as you can across the tracks.
They have a big problem at this crossing. The crossing lights flash, the bells go off and gates come down. The cars don’t stop. They go around the gates until the very last minute when the train is on top of the crossing. Not everybody makes it accross. You can call this an accident but it’s more like suicide and two counts of manslaughter. All three people in the car who were killed weren’t even wearing seat belts. How bad is the problem at this crossing? With news crews (I was watching ABC/Channel 7 Chicago) filming post-incident the gates came down and two cars swerved around the gates to beat a freight train. There life wasn’t worth three minutes either I guess.
It should be noted that a camera mounted on the front of the lead CSX unit involved in this incident caught everything - crossing lights on, bells ringing, gates down in plenty of time and another stupid driver trying to beat the train. A witness reported that engineer was on the horn too. The CSX freight hit this car at just under 60mph. (I do not know what the speed limit is at that location.) The authorities reported that all three people in the car died instantly and were ejected when the freight train hit the car.
The crossing needs to be modfied with gates protecting all four quadrants so that drivers can not swerve around the gates. Some smart lawyer will find fault with the railroad on this. Being stupid in America with the right lawyer… Add your own ending to that line.
CC
I found the post-incident footage of cars going around the gates frustrating. I guess some people will never learn, and there is nothing we can do about that.
Folks, let’s not allow this thread to deteriorate into the shouting match (i.e. throwing blame around in different directions) that a similar recent thread on just about the same subject did.
Bottom line based on police reports and eye witnesses, the driver unfortunately chose to go around lowered crossing gates with flashing crossing warning lights as well as lights and horns on the locomotive and LOST!
When will people learn that it takes only a few minutes at most for such a freight train to pass through a crossing when the speed of the train is over 50 mph…so why chance such a disaster?
Even though we keep getting these stories almost daily, I continue to be amazed that this happens as often as it does. I guess I just can not understand for a second the mentality of a person that would actually consider running a crossing with a train obviously coming. Do these same people run red traffic lights also? Just sad all around and sooooooooooooo preventable. Jamie
I don’t know if the same people run crossings and red lights, but the proliferation of “red light cameras” certainly indicates that people don’t want to wait for traffic lights, either.
I suspect that if gates (a la railroad crossing) were added at regular intersections, you’d see some interesting results - and a lot of head-on collisions.
Probably one very real difference between a street intersection and a railroad crossing is that cars move relatively quickly, whereas trains move at a measured pace. Given the timing built into both the gates/signals and the use of the horn, a driver “knows” that from the point the gates go down and/or the engineer starts sounding the horn he’s got 15-20 seconds before the train hits the crossing (and him, if he figures wrong).
We won’t even start on distractions like loud music or the soundproofing in today’s cars.
As we’ve discussed here numerous times, drivers probably don’t have a clue about how long/far it takes to slow or stop a train.
The only true solution is grade separation, with four-quadrant gates a distant second.
the camera on these engine are recording speed throttle amps horn ( with a light showing blowing and then letting off of it) bell ringing lights on and ditch lights. while taking a continues picture. and also recording the horn blowing. in court its fun watching people squirm when they are caught . It wont stop if someone is a few minutes late they wont wait for a train to go by they just go around the gate. the mind set of these people are i can beat it I had a friend who didnt know i was on that train and he drove infornt of my train close call . i Jumped him he said i knew i had time to beat that train, I told him hes on report and will get turned in next time to the local authoritys, ( militarty base we cross) No problem from him since. but most guys say i know i can beat ya, and im glad that most do. I use to think that i wanted everyone to wait on me thats what the lights are for. But now i want everyone whos going to chance it to beat me get across Why…Its easier on me that i dont stop and haft to do accident reports. we dont haft to drag bodies out of the wreckage, No lawyers sueing me… its just easier. but the best thing to do is wait 1 mile is 72 seconds at 50 mph. thats 1 min and 12 seconds add 20 secs lights start and 10 secs for lights and gates to raise and go off thats about 2 minutes for a mile long train and if its a 1.5 mile long 2 min 15 sec to clear and your on your way. or the other way is never getting there its your choice
If the beating the train is a close call, the fact that a train takes a long time to stop is not relevant. People run red lights all the time for the same reason they try to beat a train. But they perceive the stakes to be higher with a train because most of them have had enough encounters with trains to know that they can cause a monumental delay, whereas with a red light, the delay is short and predictable.
What is worse is that relatives threw rocks at the news crews that covered the aftermath. At least one was arrested.
I’m afraid that was almost to be expected in that neck of the woods.
All the dead involved were 21 years old and under. Not to slam young people…but nowadays people of that age are nolonger expected to behave responsibly. Obviously the driver wasn’t mature enough to hold a driver’s license and to handle the responsibility that entails. I don’t know what the answer is but a sign in a hotel in Palm Springs, California that maybe says it best: “All CHILDREN under the age of 28 must be accompanied by a parent”… Maybe not such a bad idea.
To adress a couple of things, total closure of the crossign via gates woudl actually be a bad thing. It would prevent people who have already ended up past the first gate to be trapped inside, in between the gates. The problem would be way worse then, and teh crossing inicdents would go way, WAY up. Besides, the current system doesn’t hamper the normal driver. The gates that lower in front of them are enough. If anyone wants to try to go around then, and they don’t make it, then nonimate them for a Darwin Award. Besides, those kinds of people would’ve just wrecked into someone, somewhere, somehow, likely at traffic lights trying to beat red lights. At least this way, they won’t take innocents with them. Now on that note, 2 passengers were in that car that got hit, but since they weren’t even wearing seatbelts, I doubt they had any protest to the running of the crossing.
Now to talk about grade seperation, such a monumental, inefficient, and insanely expensive task like that being done everywhere would not make things any safer. As said earlier, the people who try to beat the train try to run red lights/stop signs. The wrecks would simply happen on the road instead. And teh innocent people that get hit don’t have tons of protection seperating them and the offending vehicle. The system’s fine as it is. Just let the stupid ones continue to wipe themselves out. Hopefully, they won’t have any passengers.
Well, the deaths go on until all the stupids are out of the breeding pool.
I say bury the railroad or raise it 40 feet over the road or install collision walls so that it is physically impossible for cars to get around, crossing or otherwise through. Make these walls strong enough to destroy cars that do try it at any speed.
A few mashed cars later, the red light running should stop.
Since the woman was killed here in Western Springs, right after Memorial Day, there have been more than 10 deaths along area railroads, (I actually think it’s 14, but I have to check) The most recent, besides the three kids in Gary, was a woman in Berwyn, she was walking her dog along the tracks and was hit by an eastbound container train. If I remember correctly, most of the fatalities involved pedestrians, as opposed to motorists.
It’s like I have said time and again: Some people will never learn, and we can’t change that.
They can’t stand their relatives stupidity being fully exposed and documented.
No, the system isn’t fine just as it is. If we accept the fact that stupid people are going to bump themselves off anyway, at least we can say that every grade separation is one less weapon that these people can use for their own execution. And, if the railroad can’t be involved when these people decide to end their existence, we won’t have to read pontifications such as this on a Forum devoted to railroads. Or are we worried that not having a big, bottomless-pocket railroad on which to foist litigation might complicate things for greedy lawyers?
Actually, not.
In my experience, the bell rings and the lights flash several seconds before the gates begin to come down. Traffic jams notwithstanding, if people stop when the lights start to flash, they won’t get trapped between the gates.
Even if they are trapped, the gates aren’t immovable. Just press the accelerator and push through. They might damage the gate, and maybe even their vehicle, but that’s not bad compared to the alternative.
For those who haven’t seen quadrant gates used or illustrated, the second gate goes down SEVERAL seconds after the first, making it very unlikely that a car could clear the first gate and get caught by the second.
I’m not one of those “Everything in Europe is wonderful” clowns, but it has been proven to work over there.
Every crossing in the country doesn’t need them, but if it KEEPS happening at the same crossing, obviously it’s in a neighborhood of fools, and the quadrants should go in.
Whats the saying? “you can’t fix stupid”
We have quadrant gates on the Metrorail trolley lines in my neck of the woods, and yes they do stagger the gate activation, and no, we havent had a single grade crossing accident like this in the entire time the line has been open, save one where a drunk t-boned a train at a crossing.