ericboone.
I just tried the link that you put in your message and it worked perfectly the first time. It looks quite interesting as it comes already connected to a Code 83 and is slow acting. There are three pictures that illustrate the installation.
Bue Flamer.
I think I found their motor. In volumes over 50, the linked company sells them for 6.13 British pounds or about $12 each. http://www.precisionmicrodrives.com/product_info.php?products_id=108
Using that motor at $12 and a Lenz turnout controller at $7 per turnout controlled (Tony’s train Exchange @ $40 controlling 6 turnouts), you’re at $19 less the mechanism and the switch itself. Fabricating the mechanism should be relatively easy. You have a few basic shapes, a threaded rod, a nut, plus a few other miscellaneous parts. Basically, you can make an equivalent machine less the turnout for around $25. Add the turnout at around $18 and you can make something similar for around $43.
This device appears fascinating to me too. I have considered the cost… at $58 each, my first reaction, like everyone elses, was WHOA! A double cross-over sells for $219. But then seeing the costs of attempting to build one yourself… $43 before labor… hmmm… how long would it take to engineer how to hook it up, and then to actually do so? What is my (our) time worth? My time is worth more than $15/hour… I’d spring for the $58 and save the hassle of trying to re-invent this thing!
Of course, I don’t have 100 turnouts to add to my layout! [:)]
Joe
I saw this and said WOW that would be great for the layout we are starting, then I saw the price, that was a real WOW! After inspecting the photos I think it’s a great product but way over priced. With all due respect to Eric, I think his number is a little high.
I interned at a company that made sub-fractional gear motors when I was in college. While my main job was gear-train design I got quite involved with the motor theory for determining operating parameters, max torque, speed, etc. I also needed to be aware of pricing when doing any application engineering for custom work. I had worked on a project to make the vibrators for cell phones. The mechanism for this was a small DC motor with an off-centered weight attached to drive shaft. The motor was around 0.5 CM diameter. It came form Japan; I think it was made by Mabuchi. Cut to the quick: If you were buying small quantities the price was outrageous, something in the order of $7 or $8 apiece. When you bought 10,000 of them the price came in under $2 per. This was back in the early 1990’s.
If there is any economy of scale in this my guess is that raw materials, less switch, is in the order of $20.00. Assuming initial investment, circuit board design, molding work, capitol expenditures, etc is $50,000 (my guess is much less) out over say 10,000 units that’s $5.00 each. Even if the materials are $30.00 per, that translates into getting taken for a ride. I’m going to buy one and reverse engineer it. My guess is that who ever this company is they are looking for a huge return on these. That’s a shame, good product idea; poor business plan. This must be the same company that made the $300.00 toilet seats for the pentagon.
I agree. When I first saw it, I did not know the price as it wasn’t in the ad and was thinking this was the product for me. However, when I found out that it would only be sold attached to a turnout (I will be handlaying my turnouts), I was quite disappointed. When saw the price, I knew there was no way I would purchase the product. Now making my own is a feasible option.
FASCINATING? Maybe. COST?
WANT HIDDEN SWITCH MACHINES? There is Kato. Wan’t DCC addresses? TRY one.
Powered from DCC rails? = 14 VOLTS. (Gotta be a stall motor). SIZE is created by the reduction gears.
They don’t have a very “friendly” warranty policy:
"Return Policy
Products are not eligible for returns or exchanges at any time.
Unmodified defective items may be replaced or refurbished, at our discretion,
within 30 days commencing the date you purchased your product. Proof of
purchase is required.
Follow these steps to send merchandise by mail:
your Return Authorization Number (RA Number). A Returns Specialist will
contact you within 72 hours and provide you with an RA Number and the
shipping address.
package it came in, if possible.
Number on your packing slip. On the outside of the package, write the RA
Number clearly. Any package received without the RA Number on the
outside of the package will be refused.
We are not responsible for lost or damaged returns. We are not liable for
shipping charges. Please allow six (6) to eight (8) weeks to receive the
replacement or refurbished item(s)."
finding the motor is one thing, sorting out switching and travel limits is another story. i doubt that tiny motor would be of the stall type. it would need the power switched off at the right place to prevent burning out. a few may be usefull for animating a dockside crane though.
Over the weekend I had a client bring in a couple of Peco-based turnouts with Flea mechanisms for me to test out before he considers buying more.
In the testing I’ve performed so far, I generally like what I’m seeing. The action is smooth, the options they provide are exactly what’s needed, and programming is fairly simple.
To give you an idea of how well thought-out the Flea is, when you power up the track, the LED supplied with the mechanism flashes a pattern of pulses to tell you what address the turnout is set to, and then which version of the firmware it is using.
One thing which I had to think through before I really understood was that the Flea circuitry requires that each switch be assigned its own loco address so that you can use Ops mode programming to set it up. My immediate knee-jerk reaction was to dislike this rather a lot, but the longer that I really thought about it, the less I thought that address collisions would be a real problem in actual use. The only time that this would be an issue, would be if you were to use Ops mode programming to change a CV on a loco which has the same loco address as a turnout. And even then, so long as you don’t change CVs 16, 17, 18, 49 or 63, it shouldn’t be a problem. Still, it’s something to be aware of
While the Flea uses a loco address for programming, once you set its address, it responds to the corresponding turnout address, as any other accessory decoder would. You cannot throw it by dialling up the loco address-- that’s only used for programming.
If the roadbed you use were less that 1/4" thick, you’d need to rout out some subroadbed to clear the mechanism and a couple of the electrical components. Most commercial cork roadbed is nominally 1/4" thick, so for many people that shouldn’t be a problem.
I have a bit more testing to do with these, but so far these haven’t disappointed me.
Reviving an old thread to ask two questions as I’ve only now, just seen the ad for the lst time… l.) What method are users using to ballast over the circuit board and still be able to get to the board/switch, for repairs or replacement? Removable panel/square? UN-wet water? 
2.) People who’ve been using these since Nov.'s thread, how are they holding up and do you want more? Comparisons to Tortoises would be welcomed too. Thanks.
Since it poppoed up again - something I didn;t see mentioned. Not only will it trip occupancy detectors sicne it’s pwoered right from the track, there’s one other potentially MAJOR problem. It’s powered right from the track. Why is that a problem? Well, if you run an open switch and short out, track power goes off. The fix would be to throw the switch. No prob…hey wait, track power is off because of the short.
This is why you should NEVER run ANY stationary decoder from the same pwoer source that goes to the adjacent track. Use a seperate power district. That way, when you run into this situation, you can just throw the switch to celar the short and proceed. No pushign the trains backwards by hand, no picking up a loco.
The whole product here is pretty ingenious but doesn;t appear to be very well thought out. Price, having to buy it already installed to a turnout, and the direct track power all all huge negatives as far as I’m concerned.
–Randy
Hi Randy. Yes, that’s an excellent point that hadn’t occurred to me yet. I’ve just leaned enough from you guys to not power route my turn outs (at least for now) for that very reason. I’m still wondering how the ballasting of these units would be handled. It would see that a pop up/off panel would be a good idea, but maybe they couldn’t be readily repaired without removing the entire turn out anyway? Not every turn out will look good with a square line of weeds running around/over the cracks. It sounds like this product is, in general, a solution looking for a problem? I suppose they’d be ideal for a handicapped MRer though as long as they were willing to deal with the short circuit problems or find a way to run them off of a separate power source. I wonder how many units have been sold so far?
Too bad we haven’t heard from a user. Hopefully, we will.
I’ve never had an interest in purchasing these machines. I perceive too many disadvantages which have been pointed out earlier. And don’t get me started on my disdain for machine/mass-produced turnouts.
I have a friend who is mesmerized by the flea. He intends to use them on his proposed layout (which I bet will have well over 100 turnouts.). So far, none of my arguments against the flea have persuaded him otherwise.
Mark
HI from Belgium,
Yes they seems to be great and very small but here is some thinking about them.
Reliability: For me to young to be sure about it.
Power: As seen on the photo, very small motor; powerful enough for moving some rigid stock points like handlaid turnouts.?
Concept: when under the track and concealed in the roabed how do you make some adjustment or maintenance on them when needed.
Dcc: you need to control them via dcc, good for somes, bad for other because they " handtrow their turnouts by hands" even if it’s a tortoise or other device.
Power routing and power contact for accessoires: I don’t know if they power the frog of the turnout they moves and is there more contacts for signals or others?
Price: for a average of 40$ you can find a 3 or 4 tortoises offer or switchmaster motors or five to six bluepoints hand trow devices.
But they look great certainly, but are a litlle young to be sure about their capacities.
Marc
i looked at the web site and have a few comments.
great idea, poor marketing. wish they were sold separately.
they CAN be powered by separate power supply. they are not required to be powered by the live rails. since a DPDT switch can be used, power can be separate from the rails and solve that ‘short and unable to throw the switch’. also, it would take care of the ‘false occupancy’ problem.
you can send them your personal switch of choice. the web only mentions the more popular store bought versions. i’m sure a Fast Tracks (any hand made switch) could be sent in for modification.
it is not a stall motor. somewhere in that circuit board is a limiting mechanism.
$50ish a unit (+S&H??) is a bit high. with all the train conventions and fellow modelers i’ve had contact with, this product HAS NOT BEEN advertised directly to the modeler (other than the magazine adds). wonder why that is? poor marketing?
since the unit has to be programed BEFORE installing on the layout, prior planning is required to give it a address which will not conflict with other DCC addresses; unless using the DPDT switch meathod.
since you have to cut a hole in your roadbed to install the switch cuircit board, could you cut the hole all the way through the roadbed (open to the bottom) and use that for access to oil the gears as needed? faulty units will still require complete removal.
unless this product is 110% top notch and reliable, i will stick with my tortise.
has ANYONE seen this product first hand, installed and operating? wonder why the numbers are so low for a great product idea? poor marketing?
Question 1: Being very sensitive digital electronics, you would probably destroy the Flea if you got water anywhere near it, so fastening down ballast with glue would be out of the question.
Question 2: I haven’t seen the Flea being advertised anywhere for several months, so maybe it isn’t even available today.
Their web site is still active, but doesn’t mention anything about ballasting. I don’t own a Flea, but I never ballast around the moving parts of a turnout and certainly would keep glue and water far away from a Flea if I did have one.
Here’s the link to their web site: