I remember either Atlas or Athearn in their E-mail ads included era and time frame information. I found it really useful.
I model around 1930, so I’m not going to be a lot of help on that end.
Chip, I recommend that you join the Baby Boomer Freight Car List.
The same expert that put up the Steam era freight car page post to this list. If you can figure out how to search the archives you will get more information than you need. They recently in the last thirty days or so, were talking about the same Reefer subject.
Here is the Link:
For comprehensive coverage of the Pacific Fruit Express reefers beg, borrow or buy the big PFE book by Thompson, Church and Jones from Signature Press. They have charts showing the number of surviving cars year by year broken down by class.
And “comprehensive” doesn’t quite do this book justice.
http://www.signaturepress.com/pfe2.html
Tom Campbell
Elk Grove, CA
That’s an interesting theory, what documentation do you have that that’s why the ICC banned billboard lettering?? I’ve always heard/read that it was the railroads that requested it, due to too many cars being refused by shippers because they carried another companies lettering.
John Armstrong in one of his books has a two page chart showing what was around in different eras - when stuff was introduced, when it was standard, and when it became obsolete and/ore was banned. Archbars, trussrods (according to JA) and billboard lettering were all banned between 1932 and 1938, but I don’t remember right now the exact years or order of being banned.
Anyway, the cars shown above in the pic are 1890’s-1900’s cars, most of them would have probably been scrapped in the 1930’s. After WW2 the only 36’ reefers you’d normally see were more recently built cars built for the meat industry. A few RR’s kept them in company or online service into the 50’s (DMIR for example) but that was rare. 40’ wood c
Space Mouse: As we all know by now, making generalized statements about what is correct is a tricky business because there are always exceptions. The ICC atempted to ban truss rods, K brake equipment, and archbar trucks on several occasions, but the implemtation date was pushed back several times due to the inability of railroads to comply, the onset of the Great Depression, and the demand for cars caused by WWII. In truth much of the old equipment was simply worn out and replaced or rebuilt, but not eliminated at a date certain. I think it’s safe to say that truss rods, archbar trucks etc. would be very unusual to see in the early 50’s, and about non-existant in the late '50’s.
The tax laws at the time offered car owners real incentives to rebuild old cars rather than buy new ones. This is the reason that old cars lasted so long. Often only very minor components of the old cars remained after rebuilding, leaving the rebuilt car very nearly totaly new in regards to dimensions, grab iron placement, etc. A comany that owned a large fleet such as Swift, General American, etc. ended up with classes of cars that had a lot of variation in length .
It’s also difficult to be hard and fast about the billboard lettering ban as well. By the 50’s a second generation of billboard cars was on the scene such as the famous red and white Swift reefer. Generaly speaking it was permissable for the actual owner of the car to use bright paint and large lettering. By the late 50’s this trend became a lot more common, but there were a lot of the older more conservative lettering schemes still around.
In the early 50’s, it seems we used to see a majority of wood reefers, with some steel cars mixed in. The steel cars became more common later in the decade, although wood cars remained in the mix right up to the end of iced reefer service in the 1970’s . Generally spe
One other point of confusion. For some of these comments (not all) when it is said “banned”, it doesn’t necessarily mean they weren’t used anymore. It means the car could not be interchanged with other railroads. It had to stay on the home road. That of course greatly limits its economic viability. Many cars with these characteristics went into MOW service. Rib backed wheels have a date they fall into this category, yet I remember seeing them in the early 1960s. I saw and photographed a 40’ box car with roof walk still on it about two years ago! When were roof walks “banned” anyway 1979???
IIRC it was 1966 !! Interstate Commerce Commisson only had power to regulate things like railroad interchange traffic where two or more companies were involved…as you say, on their own property a company could do what they wanted.
For example, there were some small industrial operations that used link-and-pin couplers into the fifties and sixties.
Maybe this will clear up some questions regarding the trucks. This was compiled by the good folks at Kaydee, and I’m assuming that trucks, wheelsets, and couplers would be something that they would know a lot about, right?
Furthermore, I found this:
Arch Bar Truck - By far the most common freight car truck of the 19th century. Even as late as 1936, 29% of all cars were estimated to still have arch bar truck. Finally they were banned from interchange in 1941. Constructed of strap steel, it was easily fabricated in a road’s home shops. However, vibrations had a nasty tendency to work the bolts loose, in which case the truck came apart with disastrous consequences. Also, where the holes were drilled for the bolts tended to make the steel a little more brittle, causing it to crack there.
I thought they were banned from interchange service in 1928 or 29, but it appears it was later. They couldn’t be used in interchange service after 1941, but I guess that wouldn’t stop someone from using them on the home road only, would it?
This may answer some other questions too.
Correct.
Yes.
Yes.
Swift and Armour both had billboard-ish schemes post WW-2, I don’t know about Midwest Dairy.
As a couple of others have suggested, you’d be better off joining one of the specialist freight car groups. Some of the information being offered here is misleading, and some of it is just plain wrong.
Cheers,
Mark.
A number of extensions for this date were granted. The last date my references mention is 31 December 1939, but I have an idea that there was one more extension after that date.
It’s not my “theory”. The reasons behind the ban are clearly enunciated in the Abstract of Proceedings of the ICC for 1936 and 1937.
Meat reefers for Armour or Swift were in dedicated service, and were not “billboard reefers” that caused the prohibition (which I seem to recall cited anti trust concerns). That is, an empty Swift reefer would be returned to Swift. It would not be sent to a Wilson plant that needed a reefer.
As to roofwalks, I think all new cars built after 1966 had to have lowered ladders and brake wheels and no roof walk. But there was a period given for older cars to comply. I have photos taken in the late 1970s of 40 ft boxcars in grain service that show roofwalks and high ladders. Maybe even the early 1980s but I have not checked my slide sleeves for this.
Sometimes you see old photos of one of those huge hi-cube auto parts boxcars with a roofwalk and tall ladders because they were built pre 1966. Very strange looking and I bet the crews really hated it.
Some of these issues are covered in Jeff Wilson’s soft cover book on freight cars that Kalmbach publishes. In fact he resolved an issue that even the freight car mavens at an NMRA national prototype modelers SIG could not answer for me: when did Andrews trucks get banned from interchange.
Keep in mind that a model railroad is at best a sample. That is, if you fill it with oddball one of a kind stuff – the last allowable archbar truck running with the last allowable billboard reefer --it might look unprototypical. We should strive for the average and normal rather than the one-offs, or at least try to minimize the one-offs. Having said that, if a train of billboard reefers riding on archbar trucks behind a SD70MAC painted New York Central pleases you, go right ahead and have fun.
Dave Nelson
Thanks for the info. It puts a lot of this info in perpective.
On that last part, I know you are being PC, but if that was the way I felt, there wouldn’t have been much point to this thread.
No, I’m PC! [:o)]
Chip, check outhttp://www.steamfreightcars.com/, reefers, also, if you go to , Rensselear Model Railroad Society, you’ll have to join, it’s monthly, but has a wealth of steam era info, including models by manufacturers, you’ll find the information concerning reefers and all other freight cars. mike h.
A lot of good information here. The point made about non interchange equipment is a good one. Truss rods and archbar trucks were seen on Cabooses( Soo Line, IHB, B&O CT, and others) in the Chicago area thru the 70’s. CB&Q used wood beam passenger trucks on it’s wood cabooses right up to the merger.(and a little past. Some of these crummies were actually repainted in BN green) I remember seeing a couple of truss rod flat cars in the Chicago EL yards in work service as late as 1970. Of course numerous steam loco tenders in the 50’s had archbar trucks.
At least one classic truss rod reefer survived. It’s at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation. many others lasted a long time as trackside buildings. There used to be an ancient reefer taken off its trucks which served as a line side building near the IC depot in Champaign, Ill. Thru the 70’s it still had reefer yellow paint and IC lettering.
On short lines, lumber roads and other non interchange systems shuch as narrow gauge roads, truss rods and archbar trucks (and in some cases even link and pin couplers!) lasted until the end of operations.
White’s book on the American freight car has some interesting information on the various bans and the transition to steel cars and cast trucks.
JBB
I will second the recommendation for the Rensselaer Railroad Heritage Website. Besides having a listing of various model manufacturers, car types and paint schemes, they list which were bogus for each model and if the paint scheme is appropriate they date it. They often have prototype photos to back up this information and they cite their book sources. Just like good students doing a paper. [;)]
They have extensive prototype information and not just on freight cars but everything from vehicles to building construction. It is constantly being updated. John Nehrich who has authored several articles in Model Railroader and RMC is program director. (I will always remember his article on backyard bathtub holy shrines) If nothing else go look at the photos of their beautiful layout.