I have recently dismantled my HO scale DC layout, with bigger and better plans in mind for a new layout. In doing this it seems like the time to make the step up to DCC. I have about 40 locomotives and only one of them has a DCC / DC dual mode sound decoder. I have a few others that are quick plug equipped for DCC but I havent purchased or installed any decoders. At least until the point I can add decoders to some of the locos, are there any risks in operating DC loco’s on a DCC layout?
Quick answer - it depends. Some DCC systems do not support DC locos at all. And the ones that do - still have a constant voltage going to the motor. There is a possibility that this could overheat the motor if left for any length of time, thus burning it out.
Brad
Brad, I will keep this in mind as I begin to research which DCC system to use. I would hate to sell them, as I have carefully purchased locos that fit the era and operations of my former layout. It would take considerable time and expense to purchase and install decoders, but I guess thats what I am faced with.
40 is about what I converted when I did mine. Take a few at a time and you’ll be fine. It’s worth it and you’ll learn some worthwhile skills.
Hi, and a big fat [#welcome] to you!
When I got back in the hobby in 06, I had always wanted HO so I decided I wanted HO this go-around. SO, to get started I aquired a few DC locos. Nothing special, but a “start”. These also were plain old DC, NOT “dual mode” or “DCC Ready” locos!
Then I read about DCC. AND I read a LOT about it, and decided IT was the way to to go! {Less wiring}
I started with the Bachmann EZ Command system. WHICH allows one to run at least 1 DC loco as well as your DCC locos…BUT I found it VERY confusing as to which is which, {even though it should have been simple as they were totally unalike locos}, and to avoid the risk of shorting out a loco, I STOPPED using DC at all!
Now, I mind, that you may be attached to your 40 odd locos, I just started with them in HO. I Would make the conversions if i were you and wanted to keep them. Keep the DC locos for the DC wired layout, and the DCC locos for the DCC wired layout!
So, I would venture to say that all your locos should be converted and while systems like the Bachmann EZ C and Digitrax allow for operating one DC loco, I WOULD NOT DO IT for safety’s sake.
You are of course, free to do so if you think you can risk it!.
[8-|]
Gidday, while The Digitrax Big Book of DCC says you can, I would recommend that you don’t for the same reasons as Brad, and because of some strange occurances on the local club Digitrax DCC layout.
As Mike says “Take a few at a time and you’ll be fine”. It sounds that your locos are well worth the effort.
Cheers, the Bear.
DC engines on DCC layouts not a good combination make.I would install decoders in several engines then start building a DCC layout.
Yikes, you are sitting on the horns of a real dilemma.
I am a big fan of DCC, having made the conversion from DC early on when I had few locos to deal with.
But, in your situation, with so many locos, I would really hesitate to convert to DCC if I were you.
The first issue is, are the locos DCC Ready, or do you need to take steps such as isolating the motor from the frame to make them DCC Ready.
The next issue is cost, purchasing decoders for all those locos.
The third issue is installation of the decoders, sometimes easy, sometimes not so easy.
The fourth issue is cab lights. You need to consider steps so you don’t burn out the bulbs.
If I were you, I would think long and hard before converting to DCC.
Ask yourself what you hope to accomplish.
What can you do in DCC that you cannot do in DC?
One thing is for certain. I would not operate DC locos in DCC. You are just asking for trouble.
Rich
Unless you want sound in every locomotive, converting them is not really that expensive if you know where to shop for decoders. An NCE D13SR decoder, for example, can be purchased for less than $13 each in bulk packs of 10.
[#welcome]
You can run DC engines on some DCC systems, one at a time. They do it with “zero stretching”. You don’t need to know how it works, but you can look it up if you are curious. I have all of mine converted now, but I ran several DC engines for over a year with my Digitrax Super Chief. They will not overheat if you keep them running. Don’t let them sit stationary for long periods of time on powered track.
That said, you have another alternative. You can wire your new layout for DCC, but power it with DC. Do not even buy a DCC system yet. Most mobile decoders can be run on a DC layout. Convert your engines a few at a time. When they are converted, disconnect the DC supply and hook up the DCC Command Station to the same wires. No wiring changes are required.
I was in your situation back in 2007. I had 50 DC locos, half of which I had self-painted and decaled - I really didn’t want to get rid of any of them. But I really wanted to start hosting operating sessions, and that is much easier to do on a DCC layout.
So I connected my command station to a circular test track, and started with the easier-install locos first. I bought the NCE D13SRJ bulk packs so the cost per decoder came to something like $12. After ~2 months I had 60% of my engines done. At this point I converted the layout itself, then did the remaining ones a few at a time.
Connecting the command station to the layout was easy, because I didn’t use ‘common-rail’ wiring; just swapped out the wires from my old MRC power pack with the ones on the command station.
Forty isn’t so many. I’ve done about 65 so far, and have maybe another 15 or so that I’ll eventually get to (not counting a very few shelf queens that won’t be converted).
That’s far more than I’ll ever actually need on the layout at any given time, but it gives me the option to switch focus (different era, etc).
The key is “that I’ll eventually get to” them. As others have stated, you need to prioritize your fleet and do the highest priority locos first as time and money allow. Doing the conversions at a rate that’s comfortable for you by default eliminates any pain.
Don’t feel bad. I have better than 50 locos that will need decoders too. I started out with DC - ages ago. Currently I am running both DC and DCC on the (under construction) layout. I am VERY careful to never mix the two, electrically speaking. There’s a DPDT switch to select which I am using at the time, and only one is powered up at any given time. You do NOT want DC and DCC to “Mix”, electrically speaking, on the layout. It could fry a DCC system, and possibly locos as well.
Brad
I see this question quite often in the different forums I belong to. Below is some technical info.
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/DCC-waveforms/DCC_waveforms.html
I did some research with an infra red temp scanner and the point where the brushes contact the commutator segments can overheat when the loco is sitting still. The armature is quivering at the DCC frequency because of the AC on the motor.
I use to run one DC only loco as a pusher using an old MRC2000 DCC controller.
By the way, there is a DCC Electrical forum.
Rich
When you actually start running a few DCC engines, particularly sound engines, you will use them almost exclusively until you equip more DCC engines. Even if you can run your DC engines on your layout, you won’t want to.
On the other hand, you will discover the joys of a “new” engine 40 times. As each one come on line, it will be your “favorite engine” for a while. Don’t think of this as a chore. Think of it as rediscovering 40 old friends, one at a time.
Personally, my opinion is that there are a lot more different things to consider that are far more important than whether or not a particular DCC system will allow you to operate one DC loco at a time.
Slicer,
Take a little time and do a little homework/research. The information you have received on this thread is a good start. The switch to DCC is a great idea, and you won’t regret it. Make a few phone calls to the makers of the DCC systems you are considering, or to an experienced dealer of their products, and ask specifically what the system features and limitations are concerning running DC locos in their DCC environment. The same applies to the makers of your locos. No one is going to know more about how a product works than the manufacturer. (I mention this also because you will be tempted to run a DC loco on your DCC layout before you have converted them all to DCC). I have run DC locos on my Digitrax Super Chief Extra system for years with no problems of any kind. When I had a question about running a friend’s brand new Bachmann DC loco that was likely never to be offered for sale as a DCC product, I called Bachmann and asked if I could run it safely. Always smart to research and ask first rather than smoke somebody’s shiny new locomotive, because not everything is compatible with everything else, as I am sure you already know. The caveat about not leaving DC locos sitting on the tracks in an operating DCC environment is essential to remember. I never leave any loco just sitting there for very long. I wired my latest layout with toggle switches to give me the ability to remove power from track sections or sidings, so I could just “park” a loco safely for a long period of time if I wished. Keep asking questions - knowledge is power. Your DCC questions should be asked in the DCC/Electronics forum here at MR, as has been suggested. You will get the best exposure there.
Wilton.
I am running DC engines periodically on my layout which is DCC.
My system is a Digitrax Super Chief and it allows me to run a DC locomotive.
However, as mentioned, be careful. Have a siding with a switch cutting all power to park any of your DC locomotives when on the layout and not in use. I have a few stalls in my roundhouse where I can store DC engines with the power off as well as one siding as well that has a switch for cutting power.
You can fry a DC motor, should you leave it on your layout without running it. I have yet to have damaged a DC engine and have been running the DC locomoitives that I have not yet converted over to DCC.
Wilton,
Although, I am a DC user, I do run DCC Locos on it all the time. I agree with almost your whole reply. He can set up his new layout DC block control, two rails insulated, two cab control. He will have the control, that you mention, in your post above. When he gets far enough along with his installs, just switch the power souce, flip all your contols toggles, up or down and DCC AWAY! and still be able to kill power to any block, that you want. My opinion, It is easy, to switch my DC 3-cab control layout to DCC, BUT AT 71, I just don’t see, the need, maybe 30 years ago.
Cheers, [D]
Frank
Our club use to run DC in a block or two and DC in aother couple or so. One time the operator on the block controls was not paying attention and the NCE Power Pro booster fried when a DC loco ran into a DCC block and stopped at the gap. Never did we ever do that again. We banned all DC. Might be different on a home layout with one operator.
Rich