Im planning a new layout. All my locos are DC. Wondering if I should go to DCC or not. Do you think DC will be eventually phased out and hard to find? I only plan on running two locos simultaneously.
OK DCC chaps, fess up, how many of you read this question and felt like answering in a way specifically to provoke Sheldon? [:-^] Tempting as it is I resisted!!
Actually, I can’t imagine DC phasing out any time in the near future. It really is not all that hard to rip out a decoder and convert a loco to pure DC control anyway, even if manufacturers stopped producing DC only locos.
Nothing says you can’t start with DC and if you change your mind convert to DCC. The wiring is basically the same. If I had DC loco’s I’d convert a couple of them at first and run both DCC and DC with a switch to determine which would be on that day. Over time you slowly convert a larger amount of loco’s over and eventually move totally to DCC. Some people are totally happy with DC and will stay there. It’s all a personal choice.
The DCC Crowd would like you to believe that is just around the corner, it’s NOT. Although the DCC operators make more noise, the dirty little secret that they don’t talk about, is that they are still the minority, and that there are still more DC operators, than there are DCC operators.
I would expect DC to be around a LOOONNGGG time yet. What may likely happen is that most mid and high-end locomotives will come equipped with DUAL-MODE decoders, that will allow the locomotives to be operated on EITHER DC or DCC layouts. Dual-mode decoders have been available for years and are nothing new, and likely have been Factory installed in more locomotives than DCC ONLY decoders.
The entry level “Train sets” will likely take even longer to go DCC. The dual-mode decoder allows a manufacturer to market their locomotives to larger number of customers than either DC only or DCC only locomotives, at a very slight increase in cost.
The DC operator will be able to buy new motive power for a very long time to come yet, the sky is not falling.
Doug
Even though I support DCC and built my HO scale home layout to run only on DCC, I don’t believe that DC control will go away in my lifetime. I wired a large HO scale club layout so it can be operated either way, and we occasionally still need to run something on DC, if for no other reason than to see if it runs well enough to be worthy of conversion to DCC.
I think the market forces will slowly strangle DC.
There, I said it.
It won’t be with a bang, but with a whimper…no, nary a whimper…a slow sigh that sinks into inaudibilty.
It will take maybe two decades yet, perhaps three, but the time will come when DC has no market, and DCC will be struggling mightily to keep its head above water. Whatever replaces DCC will be the new kid on the block.
What we’ll have is a bunch of people who buy decodered engines and strip them of their electronics so that they can run them silently on their blocked and selector/relay clacking DC layouts.
You know who you are…
I don´t think, DC will be phased out soon. DCC will spread out even more, with the better part of the locos being available DCC ready (plug & play) or DCC equipped in the near future. The entry segment will remain DC, I just cannot picture some cashing out $ 500 - $ 800 for a Christmas train set … [:)]
First, welcome aboard.
First, it’s important to ask how many DC locos you have, and how old / good they are. New DCC-ready engines are easy to convert, while some older engines require some ingenuity (or maybe “engine-uity”) to install decoders. There are people here with literally a hundred or more engines, so conversion is not a simple or cheap proposition.
Having done both, I’d say that it’s easier to wire a new layout for DCC than for DC. You don’t need to worry about blocks for train control, or making provisions for cab control.
I’m an enthusiastic DCC user, but I’d agree that DC will be around for a long time. In fact, it may actually outlive DCC, because sooner or later, something better will come along for digital train control, and it will supplant DCC, while DC will still roll along. That’s going to be a while, though, so I’d advise going with DCC right away if you can convert those locomotives without too much pain.
THEY can have my DC when they pry my cold, dead fingers from my spool of magnet wire.[:D] Gotta admit, the thread title did seem a bit flammable. Caught my attention. I guess the day will come when you won’t be able to buy a plain Jane DC loco. Us DC guys’ll have to “convert” them to staight DC and sell the guts to a DCC guy at a swap meet. It’ll be like the olden days, in reverse.
Lou
Slightly unfair generalization, the vast majority of DCC users accept and respect that there are legions of DC users out there.
First of all, AFAIK there is no hard data to support any assumptions about the numbers of DC compared to DCC operators. From anecdotal evidence, I would say that most would agree that of the total number of operators that DC is in the majority. But also from anecdotal evidence, I would say that within the past 5-10 years, the majority of new layouts under construction that are DCC. In other words I think that many would agree that the trend is towards DCC. Just look at this forum, there are daily questions about converting to DCC, There are very few questions about wiring complex block control for DC. So at some point, DCC will be in the majority, but there will still be a lot of DC layouts.
Bachmann, one of the purveyors of basic train sets, of course offers a DCC set. But given that the average train set contains the cheapest low end DC controller possible, it is indeed unlikely that these will shift away from DC for cost reasons if nothing else. For buyers of these sets, if the hobby ever develops beyond the simple loop, then DCC comes into consideration.
The bottom line is that DCC is asked about far more, and perhaps this leads to the impression that DCC guys just blow off DC guys?
So I don’t disagree with anything you wrote other than the fact that I don’t believe that there is some sinister DCC plot with a “dirty little secret”.
AndrewRR,
DC will always be with us if because it’ll always be less expensive. There is a significant segment of the hobby where cost is the most important factor, and there will be some manufacturers that will cater to that segment because it makes them money. Therefore, don’t worry that DC analog is going anywhere. If you feel like you have to convert to DCC because of possible shortages of DC analog items…relax. It’s not going to happen.
Instead, if you’re going to pick DCC, use the reasons such as the ease of wiring, total independant control of your locos at any time in any direction, running dissimilar locos together, complete customization of your loco’s operation, and the ability to tap large numbers of other DCC users on the internet for assistance.
simon1966,
Actually, my first thought was “What a can of worms that’s gonna be!” [:D] But don’t worry, I’m sure Sheldon will be here soon, talking about how we’re all “brainwashed” by the manufacturers and the magazines into preferring DCC. Right, Sheldon? [;)]
challenger3980,
“Dirty little secret”? Riiiight.
We’ll tell you straight up that DCC is not the majority of the entire hobby. In fact, it may never be. Why? One reason is that DCC has almost no market penetration into any scale other than N or HO. O-gauge has two digital systems (Lionel and MTH)…neither of which is DCC. S-gauge is mostly AC analog, and G is mostly DC analog or radio control (not much DCC there, either). The other scales like TT, Z, 7.5" gauge, et al., are too small in number to matter much.
Going by quoted numbers I’ve heard, HO is just over 50% of the entire hobby, and N is at around 25% or more. If half of all HO and N-scalers are DCC, t
I’m no electronics expert by ANY means, but it seems to me that DC is basically what comes out of your home wall outlet, where as DCC is heavily dependent upon software-type programming. Based upon the way that software changes over time, I would think it is more likely that newer model railroad software based control systems would tend to become incompatible with older molder railroad software systems over time, before the United States changes the nature of its electrical grid.
While I’m someone who recently made the switch to DCC (still in that process), I don’t think DC will ever go away.
I’m surprised no one brought this up: the fact that you can run DC on a DCC system. For example, starter sets such as Digitrax Zephyr and Bachman E-Z Command have special addresses (I believe 00 and 10, respectively) that are reserved for DC locomotives.
So if you see yourself eventually making the switch to DCC, especially if the switch may take a while and not all at once, buy a system that supports DC and DCC operation. It will allow you to keep running your DC locomotives, without having to buy a new system later.
Yes, you can do that on some systems. I’ve got a Lenz, and I can do that, and have done that.
But, chances are you won’t like it. The adaptation that DCC uses to run DC locomotives is a poor one. The DC locomotive buzzes loudly and doesn’t perform the way it does on real DC. You can’t consist it with DCC locomotives, or do most of things that make DCC desireable. The best thing about running DC engines on DCC is that is makes you go out and install a decoder.
Not the same at all. What comes to your home, and is available at all house wiring ends, including lighting and wall sockets, is alternating current. DC is direct current. AC current reverses itself 60 cycles per second in N. America, whereas your DC railway current flows one direction, maintaining constant polarity differential between the two rails, between the poles of batteries, etc.
In fact, it would be somewhat closer to the truth to claim that DCC is closer to household current since it is a variation of AC current.
-Crandell
I have used DCC for over ten years. One of the arguments for staying with DC is the cost to convert all of one’s locomotives to DCC. More than half of my locomotives are still DC. I have decoders, but just don’t run them that much.
The problem with DC is the cost of the layout if you wnat to run more than one locomotive. I enjoy running trains and it is nice not to have to worry about blocks and switches. With DCC I can orbit one or two trains unattended and run one myself. Probably difficult to do with DC.
The argument that DCC programing is too complex is no longer valaid with the advent of Decoder Pro.
All this being said, I believe DC will be arround for a long time. One of these factors may be because of DCC sound. My preference is to buy a DC locomotive and slelect a DCC sound decoder that I like. Look at the extensive discussions regarding which is the best sound decoder.
The big difference with household current and DC and/or DCC is that household will turn your locos into a fire ball in about a second. It will also kill you if you touch the track with the voltage on it.
Like said before though DC is steady like a battery. DCC pulses in 1 direction and carries the data that the decoders read to get commands from your controller.
I do not see DC and DCC as necessarily competing, or that one is going to overtake or outmode the other. They offer a choice. That choice can be made based on personal preference and needs. By way of analogy, looking back at the history of N scale, there were many modelers in the 60’s and 70’s who were writing of the demise of HO (and larger scales). It never happened. Those who saw the advantages of N gauge went in that direction. Those who saw the advantages of HO (or O, G or whatever) went in that direction. Some model in multiple scales. Our hobby is diverse. That’s fine with me. Back to the point and in response to the original poster, I would not make any decisions today based on whether DC or DCC will ultimately prevail.
John Timm
Here I am, in 2010, typing things like that. My poor ol’ dad, who was an electronics technician by trade, would be rolling over in his grave if he read what I typed. My guess is he told me that household current is AC at least several times when I was a kid.
Heck, I’m already buying DCC locos and removing decoders, but only when the price is so low as to make them a bargin, decoder or no decoder.
My BLI Heavy Mikado’s have Bachmann Spectrum long haul tenders. My BLI Class A has a Bachmann Kanawha (2-8-4) tender.
The nice people at Bachmann provide nice jumpers so you can remove those pesky decoders from their DCC equiped steam locos. I sell them on E-bay.
Sheldon