DC vs. DCC Advice Wanted for My Situation

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Here is my situation. I have a small (12 x 12) around the walls 3 sided shelf type layout. The operating scenario is that this is a switching road located at the end of a BN branch line, served by a daily BN freight and it exists to switch a paper mill. I am modeling the small yard, engine facility, and some of the paper mill the railroad exists to serve. The BN freight will run to and from staging, once the staging is built.

I will be the only operator on this line 99% of the time. I belong to a club that is DC only and not very active although they have a very nice facility. I do not spend a lot of time there.

I have no (zero) experience with DCC. I am comfortable with the wiring needed for DC control, including establishing the blocks needed for the engine terminal and other blocks I may want to set up. I anticipate that for the most part my layout will be split into two blocks, yard and mill, with the yard having a “sub block” or two for the engine service/parking area. More blocks are not a big deal to establish either.

I want walk-around control as I am in the process of coming up with some type of manual turnout controls and enjoy the physical action of throwing the switches. Wireless would be perfect. Cost is an issue, I want to spend the least I can but am willing to buy what I need if it is a good investment. I am leaning toward DC control with the MRC Controlmaster 20 or perhaps wireless with some version of the Train Engineer. My thinking is that DCC does not gain me that much and I do not want to spend all my time installing decoders and programming engines. I do not run consists at all, I use dummies if I want the look of MU consists. My era is 1990-present.

Questions:

  1. Should I still be thinking about DCC? If so, why?

  2. Anyone nave experience with the Controlmaster 20 or Train Engineer throttles?

  3. Anything else I have overlooked?

Thanks for your input.

Jim

2

[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by htgguy

Here is my situation. I have a small (12 x 12) around the walls 3 sided shelf type layout. The operating scenario is that this is a switching road located at the end of a BN branch line, served by a daily BN freight and it exists to switch a paper mill. I am modeling the small yard, engine facility, and some of the paper mill the railroad exists to serve. The BN freight will run to and from staging, once the staging is built.

I will be the only operator on this line 99% of the time. I belong to a club that is DC only and not very active although they have a very nice facility. I do not spend a lot of time there.

I have no (zero) experience with DCC. I am comfortable with the wiring needed for DC control, including establishing the blocks needed for the engine terminal and other blocks I may want to set up. I anticipate that for the most part my layout will be split into two blocks, yard and mill, with the yard having a “sub block” or two for the engine service/parking area. More blocks are not a big deal to establish either.

I want walk-around control as I am in the process of coming up with some type of manual turnout controls and enjoy the physical action of throwing the switches. Wireless would be perfect. Cost is an issue, I want to spend the least I can but am willing to buy what I need if it is a good investment. I am leaning toward DC control with the MRC Controlmaster 20 or perhaps wireless with some version of the Train Engineer. My thinking is that DCC does not gain me that much and I do not want to spend all my time installing decoders and programming engines. I do not run consists at all, I use dummies if I want the look of MU consists. My era is 1990-present.

Questions:

  1. Should I still be thinking about DCC? If so, why?

  2. Anyone nave experience with the Controlmaster 20 or Train Engineer throttles?

  3. Anything else I have overlooked?

3

Yes. as long as you do not have any reverse loops or wyes. You elimanate any need for block wiring. You just have to drop feeder wires on ever track every 5-6 feet to a common power pus.

Secondly. If you do have reverse loops or wyes. Most likely an automatic reverseing module will suit your needs rather than a second DCC Booster.

thirdly, With the exception of Athearn Locomotives Almost every locomotive made after 1996 comes with a DCC plug n play port. And If you do have Athearn Locomotives, If you can solder track, you can hardwire a decoder into an Athearn locomotive. Email me if you would like instructions.

And Finally, Most DCC systems have provisions for wireless. The Digitraxx starter sets Empire Builder and Super Chief come with throttles set up for Infrared Wireless control and all you have to do is buy the facia panel connector with the infrared reciever, and you can purchase both with for a little extra set up for radio wireless control.

I don’t but I do have a CMI Hogger that is similar to a Controlmaster 20. That type of set up is nice and works really well. But that tethered throttle is a pain in the rear.

[/quote]
3. Anything else I have overlooked?
[/quote]

With DCC you can your various trains operate in closer proximity. If you get a basic locomotive decoder, the only thing you really have to program is the decoder address and that is a fairly simple thing to do. (Just read the instruction manual for your system on how to do this) And on those occasions that some one does show up and want to run trains. Just keep an extra throttle on hand, Plug it in, dial up a locomotive address and your good to go.

James

4

Jim,

You bring up an interesting situation. Your ‘one man’ home operation really does not need DCC, and your club is not DCC as well. The advantage of DCC for your home layout is the smooth control options, sound, and wireless operation.
My layout was built before DCC, and I used a pair of MRC Controlmaster 20 throttles, plus a tixed Troller walkaround for the yard. I converted to DCC and currently have 4 wireless thottles and a tethered walkaround throttle. And I have 6 ‘sound’ engines. The local club has Digitrax DCC only, and most of the local layouts are Digitrax DCC as well. That sort of becomes a good reason to invest in DCC.

In your case, you will need to figure the cost difference:

DC Option
Controlmaster 20 - street price about $100
Wiring - Feeders/toggles/panel - maybe $100

DCC options

MRC Prodigy - $100 -$150 depending on model(you will have 1 walkaround throttle)
decoders - figure about $20/engine.
Wiring - Feeders/bus wiring - maybe $25

Note that I went with the MRC system in this example as you have no club or buddies with DCC, and you are looking for a basic ‘bare bones’ system. A Digitrax Zephyr system starts out at about $160, and that includes a ‘fixed’ throttle in the base unit(like a power pack). Walkaround throttles/wireless will more than double the cost…

Jim

5

All DCC really offers you is a more realistic effect when you activate a given loco, or several of them at once. In DC, you must throw all sorts of switches if you want two locos to run concurrently, and as you increase the dial setting, both locos respond in kind, no matter where they are or what they are doing…if power is getting to them. If that is okay with you, skip DCC.

If you want locos to respond more prototypically, accelerating slowly against their drags, and braking the same way, INDEPENDENTLY FROM EACH OTHER, even in the same power block (redundant in DCC), you will have to use decoders. When you place a sound capablity in each loco, now you have extraordinaty realism that is, for me, truly astounding and most satisfying.

However, there is a number of people here who have found, to their dismay, that they do not like the sounds. You should, if I may suggest, get yourself to a DCC and sound layout of the type you intend to operate, and see for yourself if it is to your liking.

DCC, if I am correct, is most off-puting because it is not very intuitive for many people. They are literally scared to make a mistake or to break something. I don’t say that as a criticism, or in judgement, because I was very much with them when I first starting reading my Digitrax manual. Once I got beyond the sweaty moments, things happened pretty much the way the engineers said it would. I just had to grit my teeth and do what the instructions said.

Now I don’t look back, and cannot conceive of a return to the stark mechanics of DC.

I offer this as another view, and appreciate that you are interested in informed practitioners who have learned a thing or two about DCC. In short, it will make your enjoyment of your trains that much better, even without sound, because you will not have to keep one hand free to reach for switches.

6

First, let me say that I agree with the other replies that say once you go to DCC, on any size layout, you’ll never look back.

Even though you’re comfortable with establishing and wiring blocks, you probably won’t need to, based on the description you gave of your layout. Depending on the extent of your block wiring, that could save you considerable cost and complexity.

How would you like to hand off a single car from one of your switchers to another, anywhere on the layout, without ever flipping a toggle or worrying that the car is straddling blocks? That’s every-day, ordinary stuff with DCC.

Wireless won’t quite double the cost of the Zephyr. The Digitrax UT4 throttle has built-in IR and is $64.95 at Tony’s. You’d also need a UR90 receiver, which is $34.95 at Tony’s. Total investment = $99.90, or about the price of one top-tier, non-sound plastic loco.

The Zephyr also gives you the option of adding a computer interface, should you ever decide to do so.

Even if you’re not interested in any kind of automation or dispatching, a computer makes it much easier to program speed curves into the decoders for speed matching of those low-speed switchers, or to adjust the characteristics of any other loco as well.

How about simply dragging a slider on the screen with your mouse, as if you were adjusting the volume on your stereo, to get them to run at the same speed at the same throttle setting?

Or maybe spreading out the low half of the loco’s

7

Zephyr is hardly “bare bones” It has all of the capability of the larger systems. The only thing “bare bones” about it is the power. At only 2.5 amps its really only good for a small layout. However, add a booster and a couple throttles and it can handle just about any layout. The only real limitation is the throttle limit. But unless you plan on having more than 10 people operate your layout. Zephyr is perfect.

MRC is a very bad choice for decoders and a DCC system, stay away!

Lenz, NCE, and EasyDCC are all good, but in my opinion Digitrax has them edged out in expandability.

8

I used to run my layout with a pair of Controlmaster 20’s before switching to Digitrax. I sold one of the Controlmasters on ebay but kept the other for testing new locomotives and I also use it as a power supply for the Digitrax system, which has worked out great.

Even without multiple unit operation, my layout runs better with DCC. Engine motor control is improved, and I really like the way you can do realistic lighting effects with DCC, or park an engine with the lights on and leave it there.

My layout is still wired with blocks and toggles, but I’m seriously considering ripping all that out as I seldom use straight DC anymore except as a test track.

9

Thanks much for all the comments. I appreciate how all of you who have switched to DCC are sold on it. I am sorely tempted to go that way. Please keep the comments coming if you still have something to add.

I would really like to hear some comments on the Crest Train Engineer Basic as well if anyone has any experience with that unit. It seems like I could just use my current power pack as a transformer and gain wireless capability that way for less than $70. I did a little research on the net since my original post and found this to be a very economical solution if there are no problems with it.

Jim

10

Good point dacort, I forgot all about lighting effects. I have older P2K and Blue Box locos, is it a lot of work to get the lighting installed and set up? I have never done it or seen it done.

11

The amount of work depends on how extensive your lighitng effects are going to be. Directional lighting is easy, headlight on blue/white wires, tailight on yellow/blue wires. If you want things like ditch lights or flashing beacons then you get into the purple green and brown. Plus you have to install all of the bulbs or LEDs, wire them and make sure they dont leak light where you dont want it. My Amtrak Genesis loco has full prototypical lighting. Its very cool, but its a lot of work.

12

This reply is not meant give advice but just a comment about DCC vs DC. I have two newer locos, a Bachmann Consolidated and a Mikado in HO scale and both are DCC ready. My club runs both DC and DCC so I am going to equipe both of these locos with decoders for operation on the club layout to get the feel for DCC. However my layout at home is going to be in N scale due to limited space and it will be straight DC. I’ll be the only operator of it most of the time and I’m quite comfortable wireing and operating a DC system. From what I’ve gathered here on the forum it is no more expensive to go the DCC route then DC as the cost of all the switches, wire for a DC layout. For me, when all is said and done, I still like throwing switches and the challenges of DC operations. But thats just me. Now, not haveing experience with DCC, I would suggest if one has a way of trying a friends DCC system to definitly check it out. Ken

13

On your P-2Ks of they are made after 1996 they come DCC Ready. Otherwise I am not familiar with how they are set up.

On the Athearns this is how I wire in decoders.

  1. Remove headlight assembly. But leave the bracket that connects to the frame.

2 take the clip that runs from the two trucks to the top of the motor and discard that.

3… Remove the worm gear covers and carefully dissassemble the drive train and dismount the motor so you can access the bottom motor lead.

  1. Once motor is dismounted. line the frame of the loco with masking tape this provides electical isolation so that you do not have a short. I also take the precauton by shorting the bottom motor contact to about 1/4 inch but this step really isn’t neccicary. I then solder the gray decoder lead to the bottom of of the motor.

  2. Remount the motor and reassemble the drive train.

6… to the top of the motor I solder the orange wire. I solder the blak wire to the headlight bracket.

7… I solder a red wire running from each of the contacts on the trucks that the metal clip was once conected to. Then solder the red decoder lead to that wire.

  1. For the lights. Install some 3mm White/Amber LEDs in the front and rear headlight castings. On the blue wire, you will need to install a voltage dropping resistor. (Some one with more electronics info please call out how many ohms it has to be. I just buy the minatronics ones that say they take 12v down to 1.5v) and then solder all the negative LED leads to the other end of the resistor. Then the white wire goes to the front headlight postive leads and the Yellow wire goes to the rear.

  2. (Optional) As one more OoH

14

Jim, I haven’t read any of the other responses so forgive if any of this is repeat…

  1. If you haven’t already wired your cab control system then Yes, I would say still consider DCC… If you’re already up and running, one loco at a time, would be the only time I would say no in your case, you probably wouldn’t gain a lot or operability over what you already have…

  2. The control master 20 is a fine piece of elecronery… MY opinion is that if MRC stayed with DC controllers, they would do just fine but that’s only based on Very limited experience with thier DCC system (MRC2000, never used a prodigy)… If you Want wireless, Most Digitrax handheld throttles are IR capable. I don’t remember if the UT4 is or not but the DT300 and DT400 are. Radio systems are also available but you are adding something $150 to the initial cost. In your space, the addition of (last time I checked) a $40 IR reciever, will get you wireless just fine… BTW, there are other fine systems, I’m sure, Digitrax is the only one I have any real experience with… Not with IR though, I’m still plugged in.

  3. What you are missing is flexibility… Even as a lone operator, running one train at a time, again, in my opinion, nothing beats being able to just shut down one locomotive and select another one just by punching in a road number… DCC will also allow creature features that, I’ll say exotic, electronics must be added to accomplish otherwise… For you I think the most notable of which would be programable ditch lights and rooftop beacons… And once Soundtraxx introduces it’s Diesel decoder and you hear those BN horns blast and the diesel rumbl

15

Dosen’t gain you much. do you realize how much more realistic operations become!!!
I sugest you get the “big book of DCC” to help you.
I own a digitrax zepher and it can operate up to 10 decoders at one time!!!
DCC is very easy, I’m still in high school and I can do the whireing no prob. and I have faith you could to!!

Good luck