I being the creature of habit, and don’t like change. Have noticed that companys are still produceing loco’s with out DCC. My question is how long ?
Are they going to force,model railroaders to buy DCC equipt locos in the future ? Meaning ,sooner or later thats all there’s going to be,is DCC equipted.
Do you think that,none DCC locos will be around ? The whole bells and whistle,flashing lights ect, really doesn’t toot my horn. I can see if I had a need, for a couple of hundred locos and just wanted one to move for point A to point B.
I also understand that we as model railroaders fuel,the makers of DCC locos,to keep produceing them. Should ,I play catch up with the times or left behind in the stone age ? Next month, I’ll be getting my grubbie hands on a new 16’X24’ shed and will be in the process of a new layout. How hard is it to convert to DCC,from the old school way ? I figured,since I’m starting new again,I’d at least think about DCC.
Patrick
Beaufort,SC
Dragon River Steel Corp {DRSC}
Making HO scale steel by the ton!!!
In my opinion, it really isn’t too bad. I have never done it, but I don’t see isolating the blocks as a waste, since these should really come in handy troubleshooting.
When building your layout, you may want to keep DCC in mind
e.g., drill holes for DCC wiring where you might not be able to get your drill into later.
Just keep in mind i’ve never done this, so my opinion really doesn’t hold weight.
Currently, DCCers amount to only around 20% of the hobby. It is likely that the majority of older, DCers, with established layouts, will never switch to DCC. There was a brief effort several years ago to offer only DCC in new locos and it failed. More recently, sound looked like another reason to convert to DCC but that too has proven not to be the case, since we are seeing companies starting to offer devices that make most of the DCC sound effects playable on DC layouts. DCC controlled remote turnout operation, signaling, etc. are such minor considerations among hobbyists that they don’t tend to influence choices.
So, as long as there are established, Baby Boomer hobbyists, DC will likely remain the dominant operating system. After they are largely gone, a decade or two from now, it many be a different story.
As long as there is a demand for non-equipped locomotives, they will still build them.
I’m just starting building my cab control stands.
I have over 50 non-DCC equipped locomotives.
If that’s all they’re going to produce, then they can keep them.
I shouldn’t need any more if they decide to build DCC only locomotives.
Repairing them would be cheaper.
With a layout that big I would go the DCC route right from the start. I think non DCC equiped loco’s will be around for awhile. Actually you can buy loco’s nowdays that will run on non DCC and DCC layouts.
wiring DC on a layout that size will give you the option to switch to DCC later if you decide to . theoretically if you break your layout into blocks and install switches to select cab A B and C and then go DCC you just attach the DCC system to cab A and set all the switches to A . comments from anyone who has done this ?
DCC won’t be a forced future, thanks to it being more user friendly. Many locos come “DCC ready” today, which simply means that when you’re ready to install a DCC decoder…plug one in! Want to turn it back to DC? Unplug it.
I understand that you want to stay with what you are familiar with. But should that really stand in your way? The QWERTY keyboard was invented in the 1860s because people typed too fast and they had to be slowed down. We still use it today even though the Dvorák keyboard will allow us to type six times faster than the QWERTY keyboard.
DCC is a quantum leap above DC and if you are indeed starting a new layout this is the time to take your leap of faith. All you have to do is listen to the guys on this board who bit the bullet and make the leap. Every single one says they are not only glad to make the leap but wished they did years ago.
The DCC evolution will probably go the way of audio systems in automobiles, no choice. My Ford is AM/FM Cassette. If I wanted to change to CD the entire dash including heating and air would have to be replaced. the economics are the same make an additional $80 to $500 on the profit of the item or let the owner upgrade in the after market at 10 to 20% of the cost of the OEM. RTR is just the tip of the iceberg, DCC/Sound equiped locos their way or the highway regardless of the features or quality the consumer might want, much less an integration that makes the possibility of change major surgery. … “but Doctor I don’t want a frontal lobodomy to cure my twitchy foot!!!”
I really would prefer to choose the type of control and the decoders and sound system I run on my layout, but the industry may not provide us with those choices down the road. This is of course just the musings of one with a collection of cassettes that out numbers his CDs and hasn’t transitioned to MP3 yet.
[2c]
Will
Even if the manufacturers quit making DC locomotives and power packs tomorrow there is a lifetime supply of existing equipment already in existence. Sure that new loco prototype they announce the day after tomorrow will have to be converted from DCC to DC but how hard would that be?
This is happening now. Although most locomotives are still available without DCC, several recent-production locomotives are DCC-only; i.e. no DC versions at all.
Personally, I don’t care for DCC because, as seems to be the nature for all things electronic, it is only a matter of time before something fails. And pretty much the only way to fix something electronic is to replace it. I don’t need that kind of frustration in my trains.
I have bought a few locomotives with forced DCC. When they stop working, I’ll just rip out the electronics and convert them into DC locomotives.
I find fault with this argument. If you get cheapy stuff, they fail. Good electronics last a long time. When was the last time you knew of anyone who had to replace a TV. IF you can come up with one, it was probably the picture tube. I have 5 computers at work, PCs, on a small Novell network. All over 10 years old. I have had to replace monitors on a couple–the picture tubes went. How many radios go bad?
The argument doesn’t hold with solid state technology and good components.
Just got a Bachmann On30 Rail Truck this week in the mail. It came equipped with a DCC decoder, all ready to run. They have a new 2-8-0 outside frame steam engine out that comes DCC equipped too. They do supply info and the dummy plug to insert into the DCC socket if you don’t want to run them on DCC. Seems like a great way to go - you have the choice.
My HO stuff which runs on modules is all DC and will probably stay that way. My On30 stuff is another matter, I added Soundtraxx decoders to my Shay and Climax and will probably have to do the same for my smaller engines. My Broadway Limited 2-8-0 already came with DCC and sound, which spoiled me.
I would agree with Antonio, and also point out the economic advantages the manufacturers gain in doing so.
First, to make all locos factory-equipped with DCC would require manufacturers to either make a giant investment in producing their own decoders, or to put themselves to a large degree at the mercy of the decoder manufacturers. If your locomotive HAS to have a decoder before it can go to market, and the decoder manufacturers decide to raise your prices, there’s not much you can do.
Second, DC does still exist, and in a larger way than DCC. Even if only a minority of modelers still used DC, those people would still be more reluctant to pay the premium for a DCC loco only to remove the decoder and stick it in a parts box somewhere than a DCC user would be to buy a locomotive and install a decoder.
Finally, one of the great things about DCC is its flexibility and the ability of the individual modeler to tailor a locomotive to meet his or her own needs. Three DCC users may all have the same locomotive, but one just wants function and headlights, one wants ditch lights, strobes and mars lights and the other wants lights, sounds and transponding. It’s much more marketable to produce one item that can be used to fit all those needs than to produce three separate items.
So, I’m guessing that DC locos that are “DCC ready” will be the norm for a long, long time.
Go to a Chevy dealer and see if you can find a new Suburban with manual windows and a bench seat. You would probably have to order it. They all have power everthing because that’s what people want. Manual transmissions are a deduct in the Kelly Blue Book, even in a pickup, but there are people that still believe they can shift better than the computer.
They will gradulaly put a decorder plug in every loco in case people want to go DCC.
I would never try to convince anyone to go to DCC if they don’t want to, but that’s where the hobby is going. No Manufacture will want to be the last one to install the plugs.
I feel that DCC is a wonderful system once I understood it.
I actually prefer it to regular DC.
BUT… having locomotives that actually are factory produced with DCC and Sound saves me the heartache and hassle of trying to convert non dcc’s
The price point will come down as more people use it. But not too much.
gvdobler makes a good point about cars. People want the latest and greatest and some cars I drove into the auction house at work are literally overloaded with luxery gadgets that they can barely provide sufficient power for driving. JUNK I say.
The best cars are ones that have a balance between luxury things and manual items.
In the meantime I keep using DC until I can save enough to convert to DCC.
DCC, or something similiar, is the wave of the future. Those running DC will become a niche group, just like the people that preserve and operate steam engines today. Only a few diehards, preservationists, and antique enthusiasts will still use it. People fear and resist change. The kids today have no fear of electronics. They have grown up with it and expect it in just about everything. Model trains are no different. When the baby boomer generation are all gone about the only DC you will find will be in a museum.
That’s just progress.
As far a how easy it is to hook up and use? I’ve done both and would never use DC for anything except testing and breakin. It’s just too limited. Running DC on a layout is like being a onelegged man at a butt kicking contest.
DCC is much easier to hookup. Run two wires from the command station to the track, plug in the power supply, and controller, and start operating trains. With DCC you operate the trains, not the track. When you figure in the costs of all the wireing, switches, and extra power packs, DCC is very comparable in total cost. Of course like anything else, if you want to get realy fancy, then it can get a bit expensive, but then so can DC.
Just my two cents worth, and I’m a baby boomer myself.
Are you planning to wire multiple cabs on your new layout??? If you are, think long and hard about converting to DCC. There is no multiple cab wiring. Huge advantage…
Is your layout going to be operated by more than one person??? Operations based? Once again an area where DCC shines. Consider DCC if you are building this type of layout.
How many older non-DCC locomotives do you have?? If you have a lot of them, conversion to DCC will be more of a hassle and take either more time or more money. This doesn’t have to be a deal buster as far as going DCC is concerned because you can approach the decoder installation in the older locos slowly. Installing decoders in DCC ready stuff is simple and quick. You could also have a master switch that switches the buss from DCC to DC if you want to run old DC gear on the layout.
I agree with other posters that DCC ready DC gear will be around for a long time. I also would say that I am one of those who will never go back to DC after having DCC. None of the people I know who converted to DCC have gone back to DC.
A rather distant future, I’d say, at least 20-25 years away. With the advancement of electronic technology one would expect that by then DCC, as we know it, will be totally obsolete. I anticipate totally on-board power and radio control will be the future of model railroading.