Hey all,
was at my first operating session last night (loved it, but that is an other story) and as i was talking with several of the guys, it was suggested that instead of trying to convert my older locos, i should just ‘ebay them’ and buy newer, higher quality, dcc ready engines.
Now i’m an N-scaler, and i’m interested in the Lehigh Valley, and to that end I already have several older life-like PAs, FAs, F7, and GP units.
Since these engines are at least 5-10 years old already, is it worth upgrading them to DCC. How would they compare to new engines out on the market today?
Thanks,
~Mike
I don’t think there is a simple answer to “is it worth it?” Only you can make that decision. I would think the following factors need to be looked at:
- what level of difficulty is it to install decoders in those locomotives?
- do you have the abilities to do the conversion or know someone that can?
- are these locomotives “special” to you for any reason?
- are you satisfied by the way these locomotives currently run?
- are you satisfied by the level of detail that your locomotives have?
- are there suitable replacements available to meet your needs in a “DCC ready” form? (by needs I mean - is it important that the PA be replaced by a current PA, or would an E unit suffice).
- how much time and effort would it take to paint/decal/weather/detail a new locomotive to the standard of your old one? Is that important?
- Do you like challenges or would you rather just plug and play?
- What is the cost in time and money to make the modification vice buying new?
Its the balancing of these factors that you have to consider before making the choice.
Sorry I don’t have a better answer.
Dave
If you already have locos that are painted and decaled to suit your ‘givens and druthers,’ why part with them to buy something ‘new?’ I would sooner cut off my fingers than sell off some of my old motive power, only to replace it at 10+ times the original cost. (If I ever go to DCC, the decoders would cost only 2-3 times the original purchase prices.)
By all means, dispose of any canines in your collection, but keep the ones you know and like. Let the ‘newer is better’ crowd buy all that new stuff.
Chuck
I can not speak to the n scale difficulties (HO myself), but I faced the same conundrum – with the exception that I have a number of very fine brass imports from Japan and Korea – all either custom painted by myself or factory painted - too nice to replace).
I finally cashed in my old DC power system and upgraded to DCC (Digitrax). I did not get rid of my old system though. I can still switch back to one DC unit so that I can run DCC on part of the layout and DC on the rest. This lets me run any of my old units that I want to run. I also chose Digitrax for my new DCC since it can run one DC locomotive on #00. If you love your old locos – keep them around and make a way to use them at least part of the time. That way even if you cant upgrade them to deocder locos – you can still play with them.
For the ages you describe, I would say that they are most likely salvagable. Had you said that they were 10-15 years old, they would probably be worth a serious look. Older than that, the wheels were probably too large in the flanges (unless that is an easy correction), and the drives might be too crude or corrupted due to misuse and corrosion.
P.S.- Dave’s answer was an excellent one.
I returned to the hobby a year ago with a bunch of boxes that last saw the light of day back in the 1960’s. I decided to recycle as much as possible, so I started cleaning, lubricating and “decodering” my old engines. It wasn’t a particularly successful enterprise, I’m afraid. I got only one of about 10 engines to work to the point where I can run it on my layout. Others ran for a while and then stopped, or performed so marginally that I couldn’t see keeping them on the tracks.
Instead, I found that I could buy “blowout price” engines from Trainworld or M.B. Klein and put in decoders. The new engines are far better in both running and detail level. For a while, I felt bad about giving up on the old engines, but I have a couple of them de-motored that I run as dummies, so they are still part of my layout.
Found a little test in HO (I think).
I put the older engine on and select address 00 and see how it does. If it runs smooth and starts and stops with out the 0-5-0 then I start looking for a decoder.
My Cab Forward (1968 vintage) and my Y6b, same era. Flunked. Yet a heavy Pacific from the same era worked great. Before i give up I will take them apart and see if it is just old age, like me, that is causing the problem.
You can never say that a loco is good or bad until you test it.
Just My $.02
Take Care
I’d say engines less than 10-15 years old are good candidates for DCC conversion. Engines older than 20 years, it’s a hit-or-miss. Engines that have motors electrically isolated from the frame, or easily done so, are good candidates for DCC. Older engines that will be difficult to electrically isolate the motors, may not be good candidates for DCC conversion. Once that is established, how well does an engine perform? Is it a smooth steady runner? Loco’s that are poor performers would not be converted on my layout. This can be corrected with new motors, drives, gears, trucks, etc., but is it worth it? That depends on several factors, but it boils down to this: Is a replacement available, at a similar cost (vs repair/upgrade)? Example: You have a GP9 that runs poorly. You can buy a replacement (in your roadname) for $150, DCC equipped. It would cost you $150 for a new motor, decoder, and various odds and ends for the upgrade/conversion. The choice would be easy for me. If, on the other hand, a new motor and decoder can be had for $50, and the new unit would be $250, then the upgrade may be the way to go.
Hope this helps.
Brad
I’m not a N-scale, but aren’t the older engines’ shells completely filled with chassis/weight, leaving no room for a decoder without milling or replacing? I would think that would be a major factor in keeping-and-decodering vs. replacing.
I have 3 old kato sd 45’s and an atlas gp 7, that I have put decoders in, it was fairly easy to do and now they run better that ever [tup]
Great ideas guys. I’ve been in the same boat. Since I’m planning a new railroad, I’ve been concidering DCC (mainly Digitrax). The issue I have is that ALL 3 of the 26 locomotives I presently have are new then 15 years old. The rest are 20 or older. I have various manufactures (AHM, Life Like, Bachmann, Atlas, Revell, etc) all in HO.
I like to “tnker” and have been able to get most if not all of the to run very well and with few problems. My main issue is the age of my present pike, it is 50+ years old!
http://home.comcast.net/~ccmhet4/trains.html
Also, since you mentioned you were modeling in N scale, remember this:
If the engines did not come with DCC decoders or plugs, you not only have to install the decoder, you also have to make room for it. While that is a problem in HO or larger scales some of the time, it is a problem in N scale ALL OF THE TIME! YOu cannot just squeeze in even the tiniest of decoders without problems. So that means having the frames ground down (Aztec, around $20 each) or doing it yourself.
I had some Life Like PA engines in N scale that were only 5 years old, and just this winter had decoders put in by a professional. By the time it was said and done, I had paid $20 for the decoder, $20 for the frame grinding (I cannot do it myself), postage to mail the engines to Empire Northern, postage to have them mail the frame to Aztec, plus the installation fee itself. And all on a pair of FA1 and FA2 units that cost me $40.00 total new from Life Like when they were blowing them out last summer. Oh well, $120+ spend to upgrade a pair of engines purchased for $40.
My point is that even if the engines are relatively new, you need to figure in other costs besides that of the decoder. Specifically, where to put it. Use some dud engines as dummies and stick the decoder in them, and run wires to the powered. Or grind yourself.
For me? Except for sentimental engines, now I won’t purchase any that aren’t installed with decoders or at least have room in the frame for one. Too much hassle. [:)]
I am an N scaler who recently converted to DCC (in building a new layout) and tried to convert my locos to DCC. My experience, supported by input from others who tried the same thing, was that as a rule of thumb Life Like locos do not convert well. I had one Life Like switcher which ran beautifully on DC, but over a few months time it burned out 3 decoders in DCC. This is not an extremely old loco either (7 years). Altas and Kato convert great assuming they are new enough to have isolated frames. That is just my [2c]
Ron