I have been bragging a little on how great my Blue Line AC 6000 is with an DN163P Digitrax decoder ran. Pulled 40 cars and was slow when I wanted it to be and could cook as well. One night when I was running a round 85 sMPH all of a sudden it stopped pulling with a lash of rolling stock. By it self it would move, motor would rev up but would not go say over 20 sMPH.
Had this happen before one time, the decoder has 3 speeds and CV changed it self to switching speed. So off to K-10 Trains I went to reset the decoder CV. Neither Ken (owner of K-10) or my self could get the engine move over the yard speed. Left the AC 6000 there club night so Ryne could check it out. Ran fast on DC but crawed on DCC. It was decided the decoder was the fault.
Pulled the DN163P and I was little shoocked at what I found. The plactic cover was black and meltled toward the rear, pretty sure that is no good![B)] Installed a Digitrax DN143IP decoder that BLI said was a good Decoder for this engine. Fired it up at work on a test track I have and seemed fine excpet it ran backwards (go figuer) and head light would not work. I will added this decoder would only fit one way unlike the other one. Decided to clean the wheels with nail polish remover and a paper towel sitting on the test track.
While cleaning the wheels I had it at WOT (max power) for maybe 45 seconds. Then the DCC shorted out? Ckecked out the track, wheels of the AC 6000 and found nothing wrong to cause the short. Pulled the new DN143IP decoder and in stalled the fried DN163P I just removed and short was gone, still slow but ran. Reinstalled the DN143IP and sort time again.
DN163PS is rated 1.5 amps 2 amps max and lasted around 45 hours of heavy pull time.
DN143IP is rated 1.0 amps 1.5 amps max. Funny that is the one BLI said was a good decoder.
The yellow tape is usually used to insulate the decoder from anything it needs to be insulated from in the particular installation. Not knowing how it firs there, it may or may not be a problem.
Running backward and the headlight not workig makes me wonder if the decoder is in backwards, which flips the orange and grey wires. So when you try to run forward it would run backwards, with the headlight on, and when you tried to run backwards, it would run forward, with the rear light (which it doesn’t have, right?) on.
Just my thoughts. The DN163 should have worked fine forever, I think. Did it have any room to breathe?
Do you ever get the feeling that you’re cursed?? It seems like trouble follows everything you do.
While not entirely familiar with the exact decoder you’re referencing, on most decoders with a wrapping as you described it is meant to electrically insulate the decoder. The instruction manual with the decoder should have said “DO NOT REMOVE the wrapping” and that doing so voids the warranty. My guess would be that running it at high generated too much heat and caused damaged, connected with it being bounced on your trackwork which may have caused the unwrapped decoder to touch the frame and get fried.
I always lay a piece or two of electrical tape where the decoder is going to sit and then tape it down so it doesn’t bounce around and cause a potential problem. I think you may have shorted out your original decoder because it wasn’t insulated and was bouncing around.
If this is an HO scale locomotive, you should use an HO scale decoder instead of N scale. It sounds to me like your’re overloading the decoder and burning it out because you’re pulling too much current through it with such a heavy train. A decoder with a heavier Amp rating is what you should use.
I agree with the above post. I had the same sort of thing happen with a Lenz Micro Mini… the engine was drawing too much power and would just stop after getting to 2/3 full speed and restart. At low speed it was fine… just my 2 cents. Use a decoder with amperage that can handle the locomotive’s draw…
A 1.5A decoder should be able to handle most HO locos. Though I do not know any details about this one. Now, if it was stalled, and stayed stalled for a while, I think all bets might be off.
The ‘N’ or ‘Z’ or ‘H’ in a decoder name has become pretty irrelevant. The current rating across Digitrax’s three lines overlap considerably. So, yes the amperage rating is important, but the letter on the decoder really isn’t.
I run a DZ143PS in my AC6000 with no problems. I haven’t run it as hard as Cuda Ken but so far no issues. I’ll hitch up some cars tonight and run it for awhile and see what happens.
Sorry to disagree with you, but it is the amperage rating of the decoder that is important. As long as the rating is correct for the motor, any deocder, HO, N, or Z will work. The main reason for using say an ‘N’ or a ‘Z’ decoder in an HO loco is the space limitations of the loco.
Do I feel cursed sometimes but 99% not. Like I said before you folks only hear about the problems not the hours of fun I have with no problems.
On the first decoder DN163 it did give me around 45 hours of high balling and pulling 30 cars plus. Fact it melted the cover is a pretty good sighn I pushed it well above what it should do. All so remember I have a 8 amp power supply as well.
Second one may just be a bad one, that is the DN143IP. It only had 1.5 amp max. Spoke with the repair center today and he seems to think the 143 was just bad. On the 163, well 45 hours of hard dragging will take its toll.
Picked up a DZ143PS today, little lower amps than I would have liked at 1.25 amps but still 2 Amps peak power.
Reason for the N scale decoder is a HO 1 will not fit, very tight spaces.
Far as the yellow tape that came wrapped around the decoder. I looked at the manual and there was no tape in the PIC with it installed.
What do you folks think the max drag should be for a single Blue Line AC 6000 with a 1.5 grade?
Hope to have the second AC 6000 by Saturday and have a Athearn Dash 9 UP with flag that just might not go to E-bay. NIB from K-10 Trains.
Thanks for all the help folks and I will up date what happens with the new decoder.
Cuda Ken
PS, maybe I should be the proven grounds for HO companys.
The MR review of this loco says that the stall current was 0.9A. So, in theory, if Digitrax has rated their decoders properly, you should be fine no matter what. If there is any possibility of mounting it so that a little air can get to it, I would, but I realize that may be impossible.
Put the yellow tape over anything metal that the decoder can touch.
I have 3 AC6000 Bluelines fitted with DN143IPs and they all run fine after making the necessary CV change and light cable switch.
With the DN143IP in the AC6000 you have to reverse the direction of the decoder as it can only fit backwards and you have to move the light cable from the plug in front of the decoder to the plug behind the socket. You also have to use the socket extension that comes with the AC6000 to mount the DN143IP.
Sounds like the decoders may be shorting on the resistor that sits under the decoder, might need some insulation tape there.
Go to PCMs’ site and have a look at Blueline FAQs, it gives you programming tips, what CVs to change for different decoders and what decoders are suitable for Blueline.
Measure and record the stall current draw of the locmotive. Read the specifications of the decoders. Make a list the ones that match. Choose the one that matches space and economic requirements.
The only reason I didn’t use the DN143IPs is that they cover the light plug (so I couldn’t have the motor controller control the lights) and never would sit flat. With the leads on the DZ143PS decoder the issue was resolved.
My question was directed at the poster I quoted. I KNOW how to choose a decoder (as I am a professional installer), I was wondering if he knew what he was doing.
I thought that was you point, so I didn’t say anything. The ‘Z’, ‘N’, or ‘H’ on the side of the decoder don’t really mean anything, except size (and hence cost, unfortunately for an N scaler). If Ken’s decoder burned itself up, which seems to be the case, and if the stall current report in the MR review (0.9A) is accurate, one has to question whether Digitrax is perhaps being optimistic in decoder rating, or maybe rating them in open air. Seeing as most decoders are not installed in open air [:o)], that could be an issue, if it is so. IF that is the case, it would be nice to know what the ‘real’ ratings should be, not just for Digitrax, but for all decoders. It really isn’t liek you can just install a decoder with a 100% margin, chances are there isn’t really an option in that tange that will fit.
So, David, since you have done a lot of installs, with a lot of different decoders (I assume), do you have any better actual or empirical information about the capability of different decoders? It would be really useful information.
There’s a really easy way to tell. Take a decoder with leads, hook the inputs to your track, crank the throttle up to 10 volts on the motor leads, stick a 10 ohm 10W resistor on it and let it cook for an hour an
There’s a really easy way to tell. Take a decoder with leads, hook the inputs to your track, crank the throttle up to 10 volts on the motor leads, stick a 10 ohm 10W resistor on it and l