DCC Friendly turnouts

[joe1965]

I saw an ad for dcc turnouts. I thought most of the track manufacturers are dcc friendly. Like Atlas and Peco. I have Altas code 83 track.

[davidmbedard]

There are 2 turnouts that work well in DC and are iffy with DCC

1. Shinohara turnouts. The point rails have the same polarity fed by a mechanical tab under the stock rails. The problem is that because the point rails are the same electrically, when diverging, the back of the wheels tend to touch the back of the point rail. This is a short that can be overlooked with DC but is a problem with DCC. There are a few fixes, but the better solution is to use the newer Walther’s version of the switches.

2. Peco electrofrogs. This is because of a design flaw. The frog (usually one piece of moulded rail) is split down the middle. The issue is your wheel tread is wide enough to span the gap between the 2. A possible fix is to use clear nail polish of the tip of the frog, but a better solution is to just avoid the Peco electro frogs and go with the insulated ones (they just drop in).

In terms of a recommendation of a switch, I have to say that Micro-engineering has it right. They look great, have a price point between an Atlas and Peco switch and are DCC friendly (also allow you to power the frog).

That being said, there is nothing wrong with the numbered Atlas turnouts. Their snap switches are old technology and should be avoided (they require tweeking).

David B

[riogrande5761]

There are 2 turnouts that work well in DC and are iffy with DCC

1. Shinohara turnouts. The point rails have the same polarity fed by a mechanical tab under the stock rails. The problem is that because the point rails are the same electrically, when diverging, the back of the wheels tend to touch the back of the point rail. This is a short that can be overlooked with DC but is a problem with DCC. There are a few fixes, but the better solution is to use the newer Walther’s version of the switches.

David B

Well, as it happens, I already have some 20 Shinohara and Walthers (made by Shinohara) turnouts purchased over 10 years ago, but because I already have them, that will save me a lot of money on my next layout. You mentioned a “few fixes”. Since I already own these turnouts, I’d like to hear about the fixes.

[davidmbedard]

Fixes…

Replace the throw-bar with a gaped PC board tie. This will electrically isolate the 2 points. The closure rails also need to be gaped with a rotary tool or saw. Jumper wires will give electrical continuity from the stock rails and jumper wires over the point-joints to the closure rail will ensure electrical continuity over the joint. I use bare bus wire.

David B

[Graffen]

2. Peco electrofrogs. This is because of a design flaw. The frog (usually one piece of moulded rail) is split down the middle. The issue is your wheel tread is wide enough to span the gap between the 2. A possible fix is to use clear nail polish of the tip of the frog, but a better solution is to just avoid the Peco electro frogs and go with the insulated ones (they just drop in).

David B

Don´t you mean Insulfrog ? The Electrofrogs I have seen have all metal frogs with switchable polarity.

[fwright]

Well, as it happens, I already have some 20 Shinohara and Walthers (made by Shinohara) turnouts purchased over 10 years ago, but because I already have them, that will save me a lot of money on my next layout. You mentioned a “few fixes”. Since I already own these turnouts, I’d like to hear about the fixes.

Of the folks I know in your situation that have made the change to DCC, they generally report short circuit problems with 5%-20% of their older Shinohara or Walters/Shinohara turnouts. Which means at least 80% will work just fine without any modifications.

The short circuit occurs when the back of a metal wheel riding the stock rail brushes against the open point, which is of opposite polarity. When this short circuit occurs, it is usually momentary, but is enough to cause the fast-acting circuit breakers of a DCC system to shut down the system, and thus the entire power district/layout. Momentary short circuits seldom cause throttle shutdown in DC, and even if they do, only affect the one throttle/train.

Unfortunately, the fix for these shorts is not always easy. The first things to check are that the point is the correct distance from the stock rail when open - the middle nub on the NMRA gauge. And that the wheel set causing the short is correctly gauged.

If these adjustments aren’t sufficient, then the metal link between the 2 points must be cut and replaced with a plastic or wood or PC board piece. Then the turnout frog must be isolated from the points, the points wired to the stock rails, and a polarity contact added (if not used already) to power the frog with the correct polarity.

It’s a shame Shinohara didn’t use the better wiring scheme during manufacture, but if they had the polarity contact would be required instead of optional. The benefits of wiring the points to the stock rails are 1) improved reliability of frog power with t

[yankee_flyer]

The short circuit occurs when the back of a metal wheel riding the stock rail brushes against the open point, which is of opposite polarity. When this short circuit occurs, it is usually momentary, but is enough to cause the fast-acting circuit breakers of a DCC system to shut down the system, and thus the entire power district/layout. Momentary short circuits seldom cause throttle shutdown in DC, and even if they do, only affect the one throttle/train.

Hi Guys

I’m a little over two years into this hobby so you can take my observations for what their worth. I had problems when I started with stalling on the turnouts (Atlas). I have found that checking and filing that gap so the back side of the wheel can’t touch solves one problem. The other is that the pivoting rail point can loose contact where it pivots. I use Rail Zip on the pivot and make sure the point makes solid contact at the point. I run an SW8 which is kind of picky but have very little problems. When I do have a stall, cleaning the turn out and Zipping the pivot cures the fault. Just my thoughts. [:D]

Lee

[larak]

More on fixes … (Photos of how it’s done)

http://stremy.net/SRA/Tips/Trackwork/Trackwork.html

Half way down the page. Note that my throwbar is way too short. This was an engineering sample as I learned the technique. I never bothered to update the photo.

I have two #8 curved versions where I simply painted the back side of one point rail with black nail polish (lacquer). That stopped the momentary shorting. Someday I will modify them properly.

Karl