I programmed my BLI EMD F7 A&B units (DCC with QSI Sound) into a consist using the Advanced Consisting feature of my MRC Prodigy Advance. The two units now run as one but I can’t figure out how to make the function keys (F0-F12) respond when runnning the consist . I’ve looked through the 250+ pages of the QSI manual and I’m pretty sure you have to do something to C21 and CV22 but I’m not really sure what. I’m sure someone on here can tell me a simple and safe way to make whatever changes have to be made to make the function keys work. I’d sure appreciate any help.
A value of CV21=255 will put F1 to F8 under the control of the consist address.
A value of CV22=63 will put directional lighting along with F9 to F12 under the control of the consist address.
Jack W.
Speaking of which, I was wondering how often folks make/break consists ? I tend to make my consists and not change them too often. I was wondering if others make more changes ? And whether it depends upon the size of your fleet ? I would think that those with larger fleets might be able to dedicate locomotives to consists whereas smaller fleets would need to reuse the horsepower more often. Thoughts ?
I got the same information about CV21 and CV22 values from another source and I’m sure you’re right but how do you come up with those values? I’d like to know for furture reference.
Dadret,
Go to http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/q-dccman30.pdf and download and save the QSI manual. It is very helpful and covers the CV’s individually. I think it will answer your questions.
Don Z.
Does this have any effect when the engine is not in a consist?
Normally, I run my consists under the engine number of the lead engine. My Lenz DCC system allows me to run a consist either under the consist address, or under the address of any engine in the consist. Is this a common feature of other DCC systems, or is a Lenz feature only? Since not all my engines have sound, I typically make the sound engine the lead and run from there, giving me control of all engines in the consist, plus the sound from the lead.
Interesting. When I consist locomotives the system then automatically sends the function key signals only to the lead unit. Even the headlamps of the center units get shut down. When I break the consist all the locomotives start acting independently to the function keys again. I assumed all DCC brands of control units worked this same way.
But your mention of BLI just made me think of something. A friend of mine told me that when he upgraded the chips in the QSI decoders they stopped MUing with other units. They will MU with other QSI upgraded chip decoders but nothing else. Don’t know if this could be related to your problem or not.
With the MRC you add each loco number into a new consist number but none of the function keys work. Oddly enough my system would not accept a consist address which was the same first two digits as the original loco addresses - my loco addresses are 1671 and 1672 but when I tried to make a consist with an address of 167 it would not work so I changed the first digit and it works fine.
I got some info from another forum (BLI) that the values for CV21 and C22 are determined by adding together all of bit values for the particular CV but I can’t get the numbers to come out 255 and 63 but as long as it works I guess thats all I need to know.
No.
167 is not a valid consist address, the address can be 1 - 127.
CV21:
bit7 bit6 bit5 bit4 bit3 bit2 bit1 bit0
F8 F7 F6 F5 F4 F3 F2 F1
128 + 64 + 32 + 16 + 8 + 4 + 2 + 1 = 255
CV22:
bit7 bit6 bit5 bit4 bit3 bit2 bit1 bit0
0 0 F12 F11 F10 F9 F0r F0f
0 + 0 + 32 + 16 + 8 + 4 + 2 + 1 = 63
You add the bit value for each function that you want to be activated by the consist address(bit0=1, bit1=2, bit2=4…bit7=128).
As an example, if you did not want F3 to be controlled by t
Thanks for the information. I understand the arithmetic but where did the table for the numeric values of the different bits come from? I just spent a lot of time with the QSI manual and I can’t find anything that resembles this. Pages 44 and 45 of the manual show recommended values for CV21 and C22 but there are just binary numbers. Is there another reference source I should be looking at?
Only Lenz, or at least not on possible Digitrax. With Digitrax you can only run an advanced consists from the consist adress.
The 8 bits have a predetermined value…they are:
bit7 bit6 bit5 bit4 bit3 bit2 bit1 bit0
F8 F7 F6 F5 F4 F3 F2 F1
128 + 64 + 32 + 16 + 8 + 4 + 2 + 1 = 255
When you are adjusting the CV, you are simply ‘turning on or off’ the specific bit within the CV that you want to alter. That is represented by the example on page 44 of the manual. You add the numeric value for each bit that is turned on and that numeric value is what you enter into the CV value.
Does this help?
Don Z.
My question is where do you find these predetermined values for the 8 bits? I understand the principle, I just don’t know where these values are coming from.
First, a value of CV21=255 and a value of CV22=63 is the default value on most decoders I am familiar with. Lenz does not document CV21 and CV22 therefore I don’t know if they are supported. CSX Robert and Don Z. gave an easy to understand Binary to Decimal conversion math.
Here is an interesting NMRA link
The following are quote from that link.
Configuration Variable 19 Consist Address
Contains a seven bit address in bit positions 0-6. Bit 7 indicates the relative direction of this unit within a consist, with a value of “0” indicating normal direction, and a value of “1” indicating a direction opposite the unit’s normal direction. If the seven bit address in bits 0-6 is “0000000” the unit is not in a consist
Following CSX Robert and Don Z. math it is easy to understand a consist address must be between 1 and 127 or a short address. Except may be with Lenz whose range for short address is 1 to 100 if I am not mistaking.
Knowing that Bit 7 is reserved for the normal direction of travel. It is now clear that adding a value of 128
Binary uses two digits, so each column is worth twice the one before. This fact, coupled with expanded notation, can be used convert between from binary to decimal. In the binary system, the columns are worth 256, 128, 64, 32, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1.
I hope this helps,
Don Z.
EDIT: I placed the values in the correct order. Sorry for any confusion.
I will only add that in a byte bits are numbered 0 to 7 and from right to left.
such as Bit7 Bit6 Bit5 Bit4 Bit3 Bit2 Bit1 Bit0
I know of a French site that explain these mathematics, I presume an English one can be found on the net.
Jack W.
Jack,
Thanks for the catch! I corrected my post.
Don Z.
Thanks for the math lesson - I finally understand where the numbers come from. I knew when I got into this hobby you had to be a carpenter, electrician, painter, and model builder - guess I need to add mathmatician. Thanks again.
By the way, I just bought a PCM EMD F3 with the A&B lashed up and it completely eliminates the consist address problem as the two units run in a consist right out of the box (but of course thats the only way they run).
This is Binary.
A computer language that uses 0 for Off and 1 for On.
At it’s simplest form, all computers can understand this. The IP Address of your computer talking to the internet has it’s own set of numbers xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx which becomes 4 octects of binary numbers
255.255.255.255 = 11111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
Believe it or not, we are moving from Groups of 4 octects to 6 octects with IP addressing in the xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx range!!! Sorta like what happened to telephone numbers when cell phones started to exhaust numbers in various area codes.
It is possible to count from Zero, one, two, three all the way to infinity using Binary numbers expressed as Bits.
But you can only count up to 255 at a time.
Think of a CV number in your QSI decoder as a row of 8 switches on a control panel.
It is possible to set a CV by throwing some switches, all switches or none at all.
The way I see Binary goes all the way back to Morse Code and Telegraph and early shipboard wireless 100 years ago or more.
Now, I use a BLI ABBA unit, the B units have lights and whistle disabled and the rear A unit is lights, whistle disabled. I was wondering how I was going to set the Rear A unit to respond to changes in direction etc.
Just want to make sure I really understand this. My lead or A unit should have a value of 255 for CV21 and 63 for CV22. On the helper or B unit CV21 should be 252 (F1 Bell and F2 whistle disabled) and C22 would be 12 (only F8 and F10 enabled). The numeric values of each bit are always the same, i.e. bit 7 will always be 128, bit 4 is always 16 etc, so the value of the CV is the sum of those bits which are turned on. Please correct me if I’m wrong!!