Don´t you feel that DCC manuals are written by engineers FOR engineers, only? Hundreds of pages with numbers, bit, hexa, etc. are very confused for most modelers, and we need to have a tecnician near to understand anything more that set CVs. What do you think?
What do I think? I think your are looking for a reason to Rant.
When you step from the DC, Analog age into the DCC, Digital age, you take a big leap.
Change is inevitable, struggle is an option. There has to be a desire to learn. I am 69 years old and I know what I am talking about.
If you are old enough, you will remember having to get up and tune the channel knob on your TV, change the volume, etc. Remember how complicated a remote use to be?
When I have troubles like that, I get some Cheese to go with my Whine. I then buckle down and learn. Your mileage may vary.
Do you remember how to program your VCR?
Rich
Sounds like you’ve been reading a ‘D’ manual [;)] and suffering the consequences. [banghead]. Read through some of the other manufacturers’ manuals. Some are easier to read than others. With decoders for example a TCS decoder manual will walk you through exactly what value to use for CVs for lighting effects or for directional lights. Not all manuals require an advanced degree in engineering to comprehend.
Harley,
There’s a learning curve to just about anything and DCC is no exception. The capabilities of the technology are vast - hence, the reason for the thick manuals. Oftentimes, the manufacturers are just trying to give you a handful of scenarios for examples, hoping that you’ll be able to take it from there.
The key: Soak in as much as you can at one time and don’t be afraid to try things. And, if you mess up something while programming, setting the decoder back to the factory settings will 99.9% of the time remedy the problem. I like having a 3-ring binder copy of the NCE manual so that I can write notes in the side columns.
Eventually, once you’ve learned a few of the aspects about DCC, you then start making connections between the things you’re grasping and understanding and it begins making more and more sense. In the meantime, Harley, you don’t have to understand every aspect of DCC to enjoy it.
Just chisel away at it, a little at a time…and don’t forget to have fun in the process. [:)]
Tom
The “Big Book of DCC” (which is what I suspect you’re looking at) gets into in-depth explanations of how everything works and the mathematics behind it - very very little of which actually has anything directly relating to setting CV’s and running trains. When it’s hot in my car, I want to know how to turn the AC on. I don’t need a detailed instruction in the manual about how air conditioning works.
TCS decoders come with a page of instructions that tell you how to set all the CV’s to get the results you want. If you’re new to DCC, I think that’s the best decoder as far as clarity of instructions. I wouldn’t have any Digitrax decoders except that at one time they had Back EMF “cruise control” when TCS ones didn’t.
Remember you choose how much you want to adjust re the CV’s. If you want to change the decoder ID no. from 003 to the no. of the engine, and nothing else, you can do that and your engine will run fine. Later if you want to use CV’s to make adjustments to lighting, slowing down the speed, setting momentum for smoother starts and stops etc. you can do that…but you don’t have to. The engine will run fine on the decoder default settings. I think a lot of people looking at DCC think decoders come as blank slates and they have to spend hours “programming” it to get it to work.
I haven’t seen my Power Cab manual since I opened the box. My Lenz manual looks like it went through the war. I guess what I am trying to say is NCE is more user friendly than Lenz but if I used the Lenz more than at the club it would be easier to use. DCC is only as hard as you want to make it. Its only a hobby and not a job to me.
Pete
I thought you had to be qualified as an engineer in order to drive the engines! At least, that’s the case on the railroads up here in Canada.
[8)] (…blink, blink…)
Not laughing, eh…okay, I use the older Super Empire Builder from Digitrax, and I haven’t gone into my manual in a couple of years. Top heavy up front…why shore! Every modern piece of elecronic whatstiz I buy these days requires a mug of tea and a “don’t bug me” look on my other mug for about 30 minutes until I get the germ of a picture forming in my head. Back and forth between the throttle and manual, and then I plug it all in and try…something.
A week later you laugh at yourself for all the angst.
And, yes, I can progam my VCR. I do keep that manual handy, too. [8D]
-Crandell
Reading a DCC manual without having the device in front of you is an especially unproductive experience. I tend to learn better when I am doing things, so as long as I have the device, or software application in front of me then the manual is of value. To just simply read the manual with no real point of reference is a bit of a waste of time IMO.
Some manuals are clearly written as simple user guides that don’t offer much meat, beyond the basics. Other manuals are more of a reference document that cover every aspect of the subject. Both have their place. The latter should most certainly be avoided as lite reading material.
IMO DCC is one of those things that is far better if you just get on and do it. There is an overwhelming amount of written material on the web, in books and in manuals that will quickly swamp you if you are not careful.
It really helps if you have a little bit of hands on knowledge before you read the manual. Members from my club taught me the basics before I even bought my first DCC system. Once I bought mine the manual was very simple to read and understand because I already had the understanding of the basics.
The other thing is that there is a lot in the manual that you don’t need to get most types of operation. You don’t need to understand it all at once. As you want to make use of more capability, things will be clearer. You can also use tools like Decoder Pro to avoid the need to actually decipher the manual in some areas, as it has already been done.
I have had my Digitrax Chief for over 10 years. I never did learn to program all of the decoder CVs. I did the basic stuff such as decoder address and that was about it.
I use decoder pro now. It is very easy to use, and it is free. If you have a Digitrax system, spend the money for a PR3, MS100 or USB Locobuffer, then use decoder pro.
This keeps comign up, every time someone says DCC manuals are hard, they assume the person is lookign at Digitrax. I’d love to see these Digitrax manuals that are so difficult and filled with technical language. I have on my screen right now the current Super Chief manual, and after the table of contents and a one page "thanks for buying Digitrax’ intro, there is a VERY CLEAR picture showing exactly the wires hookign up the system. Following that there is a series of step by step instructiosn saying simply “connect a wire from here to there” Hardly even any ‘dcc jargon’ other than to say that “this box is called the command station”. It then proceeds to tell you to plug in the DT400 throttle, and says exactly what should appear on the screen if you’ve follwed the directions. Next it tells you exactly which buttons to push and in which order to turn the thing on, and make a non-decoder loco run. Next, step by step how to operate a loco with a decoder.
In other words, the beginnign part of the Digitrax manual is nearly exactly the same as all the others. Hook these wires up. Put a loco on the track. Press these buttons. Your loco should move. Press this, it should reverse direction.
Now, if you skip ahead to 3/4 of the way into the manual when it tells you how to customize the throttle settings and so forth, naturally it’s more complex. But you don’t have to do ANY of that to just run trains. It’s there so that once you get past the basics, the information is available. Far better than the MRC manual I’ve downlaoded. It has the basic getting started stuff, adn then…nothing. I’m SURE that system is capable of more than basic loco operation, consisting, and programming. Or at least, I HOPE it is. But where do I find that out?
Gramted, OLD Digitrax systems with the DT100 throttle were more complex, because they used pseudo-hexidecimal to access all 256 values for a CV with only 2 digits to display it in. But t
Every single manual I’ve read is based on the same set of directions. Here is/are where the wires go, this is what you do to program the lokes --here are the CV values.
I think that the mythos of the older DCC manuals may be still plaguing the field as it were. The stories are legendary, obscure phrases used, odd directions with no connection to anything.I’m surprised no one started up rumours of how Linz manuals were in such an obscure language the poor reader was thinking that s/he had to take some sort of magician’s Grimoire to figure out the incantations—
I am not the sharpest pencil in the case but come on–some people must’ve been buggified by scare stories they’ve read—or heard of—
And if that be so, take the time to read them, please—I’m doing well them—and I’ve read a few manuals for training that were far worse—and I’ve survived----[%-)][:-^]
Perhaps the OP is an MRC rep in disguise trying to stir the DCC system pot? Sure sounds like it.
David B
Remember satirical songwriter Tom Lehrer? From his “New Math…”
“It’s simple, so very simple, only a child can do it.”
Us old guys have to keep up with this stuff. The doctors all tell us that keeping our minds active, and constantly learning, helps push off the mental sluggishness that comes with getting older. Model Railroading teaches us a lot of things, and this is just another one of them. Look on the Brave New World of DCC as an opportunity, not a stumbling block. It’s all a matter of perspective.
I will say, having written / edited rather large print and ‘on-line’ manuals for our state tax department, that one problem you can get into in writing a manual is you like to have everything in there, so in case a question comes up on a topic the user can find the answer. However, when you’re starting out with the manual, it can be easy to get caught up in the tiny details of some issue that maybe comes up one time a year - if at all.
From a users perspective, it’s better to get your feet wet and get an understanding of the subject, then you can go back to the big manual and have a better understanding of what parts you’re going to refer to everyday, and what parts you can basically ignore except for having a knowledge that it’s there if/when you really need to refer to it.
It’s kinda like years back when I was trying to learn to play golf with a friend who was/is a very good golfer. I picked up an old golfing manual at a used book store and mentioned to him that I was learning the “names” of all the clubs, using the defunct old names like “mashie” and “niblick” etc from the old book. He suggested I spend less time worrying about things like that, and put more time into trying to keep the ball at least in the general area of the fairway/green. [:I]
???
Look at some of his previous posts:
“Re: Athearn Genesis Locomotives to now come with Tsunami’s”
- “at last !!!”
“Re: which DCC starter system??”
- “For up 4 locomotives at once, NCE PowerCab is enough.”
“Re: Excellent NCE tech support”
- “Two years ago NCE sent to me, here Argentina, the update chip with 28 functions for my PowerCab, totally free. Excellent support.”
Doesn’t sound to much like an MRC rep to me.
I agree about some manuals {for anything} are written as though an engineer will read it.
I call any manual for any thing with over 20 pages a “NASA sized instruction manual”. Because everything but the proverbial kitchen sink is in there. {I know, I know, that way they can say “it’s in the manual”}.
My cell phone manual has 175 pages to it {granted it is small in size so fewer words on the pages}. Why? Its a phone!!! I want a phone for emergency purposes, I do not want to text, access the internet,take pics {It does not have a camera in it}, let it change the oil in my van or have it clean my house for me!! {WELL- MAYBE it could clean my house for me}. Should be simple for simple humans to operate.[;)]
The more complicated an item/manual gets the less interested I can be.
Take a vehicle. I do not want it to open doors for me, I do not want to be restricted to PAYING for satellite radio or the onboard cell phones in it. I want it to get me from point A to point B safely. And I have a GPS already {far cheaper than the onboard version}.
The GPS has multiple full sized pages {about 200 and something} that are exclusively on a computer disk, so I have to use the computer to try to find what I want. {How does that help me while out on the road somewhere strange?! I do not have a wireless laptop!?}
For my trains, I want to run them easily and want to be able to easily operate them. I want simple instructions. That is what I like about the Bachmann EZ Command system. I do not care to have 150 different bell rings to choose from or have 120 horn sounds to pick from. 10 should be enough?! I do not care to have 1,685 different CV functions that will change my oil or clean my house. {again, MAYBE clean the house?!}
These days they are sticking compl
Oh RELAX…it was tongue in cheek…geesh.
Have you read an MRC ad lately or in the last 5 years in regards to their DCC systems? The OP sounded exactly like them…
David B
I think most techie things have three or maybe four of functionality. There’s one level that mot people can get to without even cracking the manual, they are just intuitive (Think of the cell phone example). Then there’s a level you can get to by scanning the high points of the manual, as seeing functions that you didn’t know were there, but are pretty easy once you know about them. Then there are the things you pick up by actually reading the manual in a general way. Lastly there are the really specialized things that you find when you think, “I wonder if I can do that?” and you search the details of the manual for it. I appeciate manuals that let me do that. Digitrax being a pretty good example. I haven’t looked at an MRC manual for their newer products, but I would say that some things I’ve seen in the passed have sacrificed information that could be used in order to keep it simple. It ends up making things more difficult, in my opinion. First to find out if what you want to do is possible, and then how to do it. I’d rather have more info, and choose how to use it. Of course, it doesn’t hurt that I am an engineer! 