Returning to the hobby after long absence. Fascinated by DCC. Still have a lot of old Athearn Blue Box locos (F45, FP45, F7A, etc), and some newly acquired Athearn Genesis diesels and IHC steam locos. Wondering about DCC and DCC with sound. Would like to put DCC in everything and DCC with sound in at least one Atheran Genesis 91763 GP35 and one new IHC 4-6-4. Don’t know where to start. I have seen diesel locos with sounds such as idling, revving up, horn, bells & steam with the chugging, etc. Do all decoders with sound have “all the sounds”? Looking at Digitrax systems. Any assistance greatly appreciated!! PS - I have technical background, so soldering, etc is not a problem, if required.
Welcome to the forum and back to the hobby. There are a lot of us here who have returned in the last two years.
DCC was the greatest discovery of my return, and is the best toy in the train room. I chose Digitrax radio for my DCC. I updated a couple of my old engines but run most of them without decoders using address 00. I found the new steamers with sound are just better than my old stuff except for the brass and converting them is a task.
My suggestion is to do some reading and talk to some folks before you buy. For me I spent a few more bucks, got radio and four throttles and even on my little layout it is fun to watch the four grandkids each walking around with their own train.
Thanks ARTHILL. Lots of nice photos there!! Do you know if the Digitrax Zephyr can be upgraded to radio? I had to stop getting the model RR magazines because of all the awesome photos…when I didn’t have the time or money to do any of this stuff. Now I have more credit cards [:I]
Hi, fellow Canuck!
Your old DCC engines, if they have strong sentimental value, could be converted, but you must isolate the motor from the frame entirely…100%. Tape and nylon screws work in most cases. That difference in height will surely have an affect on your drive interface, though…maybe only slight, but…
The only other thing that I hear guys talking about is the issue of the flanges on the wheels. Modern modelling calls for somewhat realistic rails, and that means Code 83 (83 thou height) for many, while others insist that only Code 70 will do. Your older engines, when you have a close look to compare them with what you have recently bought, may have what are currently termed “pizza cutter” flanges. They will not work on Code 83 or shorter profile rails. Code 100, which is very popular because of its forgiving nature and overall robustness, is fine for them.
I don’t have a ready link, but if you find the DCC info section at http://www.tonystrains.com/, or whatever it really is, you will be well served. I believe there is one at litschfield station, too.
Let me add my welcome as well.
Here is a link to one of my favorite decoder installations sites
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Installation_list_by_Manufacter.htm
TCS is an excellent US decoder maker. My suggestion would be to look at some of the examples and tackle a DCC only install first. TCS has a great warranty for the beginner. You mess up and they replace the decoder. Adding sound increases the complexity of the install due to the need to find space for the speaker and the speaker enclosure/baffle.
I put both regular DCC and sound into IHC steamers. They are not hard to do if you are comfortable with a soldering iron.
Here is another site that has a wealth of info and covers the decoder installs as well
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/wirefordcc_toc.htm
and just for luck here is another.
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/dcc.htm
I am a Zephyr user and you sure can add Radio to it. All you need is the UR91 Radio receiver module and a radio equipped throttle, either a DT400R or a UT4R. Just plug the UR91 into the loconet connector of the Zephyr via a loconet cable, add power and you are off. It is a very simple upgrade. Not especially cheap, but it is nice to know that you can easily add these features to the Zephyr.
Thanks selector and simon. I’m hooked…all over again.[wow]
Well Yes and no. Yes, they have all the sounds you have mentioned but that is hardly all the sounds. No, all the sound units do not have the same sounds, some of them have some really annoying things like the engineer sliding a window closed, a conductor saying “all Aboard”, etc. And then there are the specialty decoders that have Christmas sounds instead of normal train sounds. Bottom line is that I don’t think you want “all the sounds”.
I have a Digitrax Zephyr and am happy with it. It is their “entry” level system. What I don’t like about the more advanced Digitrax systems are the wireless throttles. For Wireless I use CVP throttles on a Lenz set-100.
As I hope you have already figured out, the brand of mobil decoders used in the locomotives is independent of the brand of control unit you choose.
I would advise not to start by making a huge shopping list and just going and buying it all at once. Choose the command station and get it. Buy a decoder or two and work on one project at a time. Get the one done and play with it a lot before starting the next, because you might learn something you want to change later. For example I have found I like to have one lamp on the locomotive to be on if there is track power. That way I know if the unit is getting power, before I start trouble shooting something that is as simple as the locomotive sitting on a dead spot.
In the bigger scheme of things, I can highly recommend not getting locked into any one decoder model or brand. Some people have so much luck with their first installation they become convinced that it is the 'best&#
Texas…all good points! Thank you!
Two years ago, I came back to the hobby after a 40 year absence. Like you, I found a brave new world of changes, to go with my brave old world of trains which had been carted between various attics and basements over the previous 4 decades.
When I installed my first decoder and ran that train, I was suddenly an 8-year-old kid again, discovering the fun of model trains that I recalled from ages past. Yeah, it really is that good.
So far, exactly one of those old engines has been upgraded to DCC. The rest barely run at all, even on DC. I gutted two of them and run them as dummies, but the rest of my engines are new. And they are so-o-o-o much better than the old stuff.
I recently started upgrading to sound-equipped engines. I bought 3, and I upgraded one myself. (That was the second upgrade for that engine. I bought it new, but without a decoder.) Given that experience and the bargains which can now be found on sound-equipped engines, I wouldn’t buy another engine now unless it already had sound. I’ll probably upgrade a couple of my others to sound sometime, though.
There is a lot of difference between sound decoders. Steam engines, in particular, seem to have a much wider variety of sounds, and are more interesting sound-wise than diesels. Of course, you could probably say that for the prototype, too.
The trouble with sound installation is interior space in the locomotives. Most modern engines are designed with a lot of weight added for better traction, but that leaves very little empty space under the shell. They usually provide space for a standard motion-and-lighting decoder, but not much more. The large space for a speaker and speaker box is difficult to come by in most engines. (If you look at sound-equipped steamers, you’ll find the speakers in the otherwise-empty tender. This large hollow space is another reason sound-equipped steam sounds so great.)&nbs
Yes, you can upgrade a Zephyr to radio, but why? If you have the credit card, get a Super Chief radio with an extra UT4r to start with and have fun the first day. You will only save a few bucks, but you will get some instant gratification. Get a new sound equiped DCC engine of your dreams and you can get it hooked up and running in an hour. With the S.C. and a UT4r throttle you can run three engines, one of which is DC right from the start.
NoDCCin73,
[#welcome] to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]
Digitrax makes a very fine product and there are a number of Digitrax users here on the forum. I just want to encourage you to be sure to check out the other DCC systems available (NCE, Lenz, MRC, CVP) as well, so that you can make the best informed choice as to which system will best meet YOUR needs.
DCC is great. I have no plans of going back. [^]
Tom
Thanks for all the kind words. My older brothers had some O-gauge Lionel stuff when I was really young and I barely remember it. I got my first train set for Christmas in 1968. A Triang set, which I still have. I can still remember that morning. Even though it was just an oval…every trip around was magic for a long time! I think I would only want to add DCC to a few select “sentimental” locos that are in quite good shape (Athearn F45, Tyco 4-6-2 kit that I built at age 13…maybe not even possible due to motor/frame contact). I am hearing that the basic Zephyr is not a good unit for someone wanting sound…but I think that’s dependent on the number of locos you want to have “sounding off” at the same time. Correct me if I’m wrong. I envision having only 2 or 3 sound equipped units for a long time…and would likely only ever have a maximum of 4 locos running at the same time on the layout…so I’m still wondering about the Zephyr’s suitability. I’d like to have the best of everything at first, but my lottery winnings to date will probably only cover the cost of a package of Kadees. [:o)] Like everyone is suggesting, I will try not to rush into any of this. I’m finding lots of interesting info. By the way…asked Digitrax what decoder I’d need for my newly acquired Athearn Genesis GP35 “DCC Quick Plug Equipped” unit and they said “We currently have no sound decoder for this locomotive”…so who do you go to for a decoder for this unit? Lots to learn, for sure. Thanks again for taking the time to reply!!!
The Zephyr will easily handle the 2-4 locos that you describe, so will most other DCC systems. I have run upwards of 8 sound equipped locos on my Zephyr equipped layout simultaneously.
Since you are in no great hurry you may be needing to wait a little for sound for your diesel. After a huge flurry of product announcements and “coming soon” notices, we are in a bit of a hiatus with respect to Diesel sound units. Digitrax has just entered the sound market and have really only got one model specific decoder out right now. Soundtraxx released the high end Tsunami decoder but only in steam, there are no diesel ones yet. The lower cost Soundtraxx decoders are not very good IMO. I got a couple when they were blowing them out last year and frankly would never buy another. The sound is marginal, but worse they crack and stutter terribly on anything but pristine track. Supposedly the new versions are better, but I have no first hand experience and an very wary of them. QSI (the decoder found in BLI) has announced a couple of apparent false starts to release decoders to the market. As far as I know they are not available yet. MRC sound decoders have received such bad press on here that I would never get one. This leaves ESU Loksound who offer an excellent if expensive solution.
As you can see, there are several options pending, but no great choice just yet.
simon…thanks for the reply!! I find it very helpful hearing about other people’s experiences and opinions. Good stuff!![tup]
If you want radio DCC the Digitrax Super Chief (radio) is a great way to get started.
How many wireless throttles can one use on a Super Chief? As many as there are Loco-Net addresses? How do they share the limited air-wave frequencies?
I dont know about radio, but with the tethered throttles, the Chief can handle like… 120 locos at once and maintain so many addresses, way more than what the average Club might deploy.
I’m leaning toward the Zephyr, for now. I’m still a bit confused about what decoders to looks for (brands, models), for operation…and for putting sound in a couple locos. I have decided that I would like sound in my new “blue box” Athearn SD40-2 and my new IHC 4-6-4 Hudson. I would like to put DCC without sound in a couple new “blue box” GP-38s and maybe in some switchers. I have found a few “decoder listings” but they don’t cover a lot of the brands or models of locos. I’m sure there is a more complete list out there. Thanks again for the assistance.
When it comes to brands of decoders for just running the loco, not sound, there are so many choices that it is not really practical to have a list of “suggested” decoders for specific models. Many of us have our preferences. There are as you will quickly see also quite a price range for decoders. There are some brands that you can’t really go wrong with, Digitrax, TCS, NCE and everything but the really cheap Lenz decoders.
The way to decide is to ask yourself a few questions.
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How much space do I have for the installation.
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Does the loco have an NMRA plug into which a decoder can simply plug.
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What if any lighting effects do I want or need (ditch lights, headlights, rear lights, beacon lights) etc. From this you can determine the number of function outputs that you need.
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What is the maximum current draw of the loco. Important on old locos. If you put a 1 Amp rated decoder in the unit and it pulls more than 1 amp it can blow the decoder.
If I were you, I would call one of the good DCC dealer/installer companies like Litchfield Station or Tony’s or drop an e-mail to a company like TCS and solicit there advice for these first installs. In most cases there will be dozens of decoders that will work in your application, it is just as case of choosing the features and the budget for the project.
What I don’t like about the more advanced Digitrax systems are the wireless throttles. For Wireless I use CVP throttles on a Lenz set-100.
Hi TZ, could you elaborate on this?
I won’t be starting construction on my layout for a while and was waiting to see the RF offering from MRC. It looks like the Prodigy Advance Wireless system will be available mail order for around $330 and I like the ergonomics of the throttle. (Never mind that seems like a bargin compared to the Easy DCC system!) [:)]