DCC Operators

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I would personally like to ask all DCC operators, on behalf of myself, and MANY other DC operators, that if you come across a DC SPECIFIC thread, to PLEASE RESPECT it as a DC SPECIFIC thread.

All too often a thread such as the recent “2 ho scale Dc locos in tandem?” thread get steered so far off course as to be useless, by maybe Well Intentioned, but UNWELCOME DCC “advice”, with this particular post below effectively DERAILING the thread early on.

2 locomotives on DC?..We did it for years using a 2 power pack cab control and block wiring. Again… 2 locomotives on DC ? …Time to switch to DCC…Once it’s in, you’ll never go back to DC…chuck

DC Operators VERY RARELY come into a DCC specific thread to tell you that you wouldn’t have say, decoder problems, if you ran on reliable DC power, PLEASE extend the same Courtesy to US. Most DC operators are fully aware of DCC, and even have a Fair or better idea of DCC’s capabilities, but chose for our own various reasons NOT TO SWITCH TO DCC.

We ARE NOT NEANDERTHALS, or AFRAID to switch to something UNKNOWN, or many other things that have been said, or suggested about US, We simply choose to run our trains with a different system than You do. DCC does have it’s Merits, I don’t deny that, but not everyone feels it is a worthwhile investment in Time or Money for them.

If We want DCC advice we will ASK for it, then any advice will be Welcome, and considered thoughtfully. Please stop prosylitizing where it is not wanted.

Thank You from Myself and Countless other DC Operators,

Doug

2

Doug–

Looks like that post got so efffectively derailed that it got deleted. I hope that the original poster was able to get his question answered before all of the unneccesary explosions.

Tom

3

Doug,
Are you kidding? DC users are habitually posting on various DCC forums and threads over the years making comments that are not exactly favorable to DCC.

Your efforts to silence speech you object to is duly noted, but since you aren’t a moderator here, I’m guessing your efforts will be wasted.

BTW, you really don’t need to SHOUT every OTHER word BECAUSE we ARE right HERE, we CAN hear YOU just FINE. If you want emphasis a point, try bold, italics or underline. Otherwise, you are SHOUTING by using all caps. Thanks.

Paul A. Cutler III

Weather Or No Go New Haven

4

Tom,

Nope, just rotated to page 2, because of other more active posts. That was likely due to it being effectively derailed by the off topic/unfortunate/unnecessary DC vs DCC turn it took. I too Hope that the OP did manage to sort through the distractions to get the info he originally asked for.

Doug

5

Tom,

It hasn’t been deleted…the embers have died down a bit and it’s dropped down to page 2. One thing I noticed about the OP’s post:

He has only posted 3 times here on the forum. Since he asked such a basic question about running 2 DC locos on the same track, in my opinion, he could be brand new to the hobby and might possibly not know about DCC. I saw nothing wrong with the DCC users answering his question that yes, you can do what you ask in DC, but speed matching with DCC is indeed much easier. It seems some of the DC users took offense to that information being disseminated and the flames began…just my [2c].

Don Z.

6

Good luck with that, boss. As long as everyone feels that they’re way of doing something is the only way to do things, you’re always going to have these people telling you their way is better.

7

Don–

That could very well be the case–but I frankly was appalled at how ugly it got. As I said in my post, ‘sniping’ is something you do from foxholes, LOL!

BTW, how’s the layout coming? Mine’s on hiatus until either after the weather clears up or Lent’s over. Hard to open the garage door and get to the Buttes while it’s raining (which we DESPERATELY need out here).

Tom

8

Tom,

I haven’t stepped foot into my train room in over a month. My son is raising a hog for his FFA project and the livestock show is 2 weeks from Tuesday. We’re trying to manage his weight gain so the hog won’t be overweight at the show. This requires us to feed 4 times a day, 7 days a week. I’ve also taken on the job of Farm Manager, making sure animals are being fed, pens being cleaned, etc. I barely have enough time to take care of my actual job these days…I’ll be glad when the show is over and I can take a breath or two…

By the way, what is this rain you speak of? We’re over 25" behind on rainfall for the last 18 months…send some my way if you can!

Don Z.

9

Paul,

I personally don’t see the difference, but OK.

I have gone to the Electronics and DCC board and reviewed many (but by no means ALL) DCC specific threads, and honestly found very few (and polite at that) DC operators posting on what was a specifically DCC thread. The threads that I mainly found DC users posting on, were those that asked about DC/DCC comparisons and/or differences.

I am not trying to “Silence” anybodie’s speech, just asking for a Little COURTESY, which I guess in these days and times is something that needs to be asked for, rather than being expected.

Doug

10

DCC is as much a part of the hobby that DC is.

If you have a new person to the hobby, it is quite likely he doesnt know about DCC and what it has to offer.

If he gets info from his thread that he didnt know before, then he is a better MR for it.

David B

11

Unless the OP of a thread asks for specific information (ie: related to DC operation only) then any information coming in will be coming from all quarters and will be related to DC and DCC. He can comb through the replies and sort out what he wants and ignore the rest.

12

Doug:

You’re doubtless learning by now that you need a bit of a thick skin to post on this board. I recently ran into the same criticism (by some of the same people) on another thread – first being told that I was trying to tell them they had to do something my way, then being told (when I apologized for perhaps not explaining my position more clearly, then asked very politely – I thought – that the thread get back on topic) that I was trying to “silence” anyone who didn’t agree with me. Neither was the case – I was just concerned that the thread was getting so argumentative that the moderator would lock it and end what was, at its outset, a good discussion about a new product. And that, unfortunately, is exactly what happened.

Of course, people who are obviously new to the hobby can benefit from advice on subjects they don’t know much about, and there’s nothing wrong with a DCC user giving someone who asks a DC question information about why he/she thinks DCC is better suited to the task in question. But I’ve noticed posts on certain questions here often degenerate into “my way is better than your way” flame fests.

It’s easy to fall into the trap of defending your position to the point where you find yourself flaming the flamers, which is what happened to me. Ultimately, of course, it accomplishes nothing but getting a thread closed down. My advice to you is don’t take the bait – just ignore anyone you see as trying to instigate an argument. That’s going to be my policy on this forum from now on.

Bill Hirschi

13

Paul,

If DC users are sticking their nose in threads like “I have a decoder problem” just to make wise cracks, that is just as wrong as DCC users telling every DC user who askes a question that the answer to the question is DCC.

Personally, in my short time on here, I’ve hardly ever even opened any of those types of DCC threads - no interest. And the one time I remember doing so, I offered a constructive help based on my experiances with several friends layout - no sniping.

David,

Feel free to quote me all you want - remember, I don’t care who laughs, and my self esteem is not invested in your opinion of me. I have said from the begininng that if you want or need sound, consisting, and similar features, than you SHOULD use DCC.

You are the one who can’t get the idea that not everyone cares about those things and that others may have a different list of modeling goals and priorities - including being able to run their trains and enjoy their layouts by themselves.

Sheldon

14

jeffery,

in the example cited, not only was the OP clear in his question, that it was DC specific, but it was also clear in the thread title, that it was a DC specific question.

Doug

15

I didn’t say it wasn’t. You’re going to have unwanted information and opinions in any case.

16

Doug,

Lets slow down abit on this here, we need to keep this in check a little or it will get locked or deleted. I know it hit a nerve on you as well as others when David used the word neanderthals and DC in one sentence, so this was bound to happen. David did say he was sorry and said that it was directed at one or two people, but it should have never been said anyway. He did say he was sorry, so we will leave it at that, I’m cool with it now.

As I stated before I have both DCC/DC in my layout, best of both worlds so to speak. I’m happy with itand it works for me.

The original post asking about running 2 in Tandem is very clear I think in DC. There were allot of DCC user saying this will cure everything. And maybe the poster was new to the hobby, or was just trying to find a simple answer, which I really don’t think he got either, because of the difference of opinion many had over DC/DCC.

DCC does have many advantages over DC control. I for one have never stuck my nose into a DCC question about problems MR’s are having with their decoder’s, and to be quite honest after looking around in the DCC section over the years in these threads did I ever see any DC user say to throw away you DCC control systems and convert to DC. Saying that is like telling all of us to go back to dial up on our computers. Even though dial up is still out there. Thats ok though we buy and use what we have offered and can afford, so the same applies to MR.

There are the so called experts who have endless hours of work and reasearch that they have done on both DC/DCC, so there is going to be grinding of the gears between old school and new school. No way around that. We just have to rememeber that it takes time and money to convert to DCC, so options will have to be thought about. The MR who has a small fleet of loco’s of maybe 10 to 20, and is all DCC needs to rememeber that the MR with 25 to 100 engines is going to spend a fortune on decoders. That seems to be forgoten allot. But we

17

Let me be clear about me and Sheldon.

We crossed paths before and we agreed to stay out of these DC vs DCC conversations.

Sheldon then crossed the line again and broke our agreement. So I am now calling him on it, but he is impossible to deal with.

It seems that every single post of his has some sort of over or under tone embedded in it. He is a very smart (he lets you know), well to-do man (again, he makes it clear).

Also, he is publishing a book that has to do with his control system.

David B

18

David acussed me of doing all this to sell my book and make money, I let him know I didn’t need the money.

But of course it is OK for David to ambush every DC question with a pitch for DCC since we all need to be “saved” from DC.

What a double standard.

Sheldon

19

I don’t see what the problem is with answering a question about running two DC engines together with an answer explaining that it’s possible if the two engines run pretty close to each other in speed, but if not may require a lot of work like adding resistors to an engine that runs to fast, or removing the lightboard of an engine that’s too slow…and that the easiest solution in the long run would be to go to DCC where speedmatching is pretty easy in comparison.

If somebody on a post somewhere asked about the best way to operate and maintain his old wooden icebox, I would expect at least one responder to suggest that getting an electric refrigerator might solve a lot of problems and overall be easier compared to getting ice delivered to his house a couple times a week, and having to keep a pan under the icebox to contain the melting ice etc.

[swg]

20

So, based on your answer above, if a new user comes on here and asks about building his benchwork using pine lumber, I’m not allowed to respond that I think using poplar is a better material, Chuck isn’t allowed to respond that he thinks using metal studs is a better material and so on.

This is a forum that is supposed to benefit all of us by allowing us to exchange ideas and methods, not restrict who can reply to a question or belittle others that think or act differently than we do in the hobby.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled flame war…

Don Z.