Question–
I am new to model railroading and I was wondering would it be best for me to start off with DCC or Analog? I know DCC is more expensive but in the long run would it be better? Thanks for the help!!
Ben
Welcome to the forum. If you like to run trains, and have the cash, Go DCC. If you don’t have the cash, wait a little until you do. The $5 to $50 you layout for DC will be a waste of cash down the line. Even on a small layout, the ability to run 2 or 3 trains at the same time is more fun than you can imagine. You will save the price of an extra throttle just in the switches you would have to buy and wire up.
If you do DCC, read some of the threads here and get a good setup. There are some starter sets out there that seem a waste on money. I am a Digitrx fan, but there are some REALLY good alternatives.
Keep us posted.
I agree with Art. There are thousands of model railroaders who are using DC/Analog, and they get a great deal of enjoyment out of their planning and hard work. There are some good prices on DC equipment, whether in locomotives or in power supplies.
The single greatest problem with DC/Analog is that the locomotives, if they were wired conventionally at the factory, will chase each other around the layout when power is supplied; you can’t reverse them so that they appear to work independantly unless you are willing to add a great deal in cost and time in wiring your layout with block switching that means you must make isolated sections of powered track. You’ll still need to isolate some sections in DCC, but not to the same extent. Not surprisingly, that means also that running them in DC, when you get to that point, will be labour intensive and require a lot of forethought…not unlike the real thing, though. [;)]
What DCC offers, after a few hours of reading and gulping, is independant train control to the extent that you can call up a given loco, ask it to accelerate to a given speed, leave it be, and call up an entirely different one to do something else, maybe some yard switching. On the same section of powered track, you can make DCC locomotives touch nose-to-nose if you wanted to…you could have a train push/pull! Can’t be done in DC/Analog…they will want to move in the same direction, never against each other, no matter which way each loco is facing!!! Even if you pick one up and turn it to face the other way, your DC reversing or forward function will make it move in the same direction as the other! Not very realistic.
Sound capability is vastly improved with onboard sound systems that accurately render the prototypical sounds of each type of locomotive. Until recently, this was DCC’s domain in a big way, although there was some sound capability in DC and with under-the-layout s
Ditto ARTHILL’s remark. Unless you’re only ever going to run one train around some kind of continuous loop, DCC is the way to go. It seems most newbies (including me) in this hobby are inclined to go DC and then step up to DCC, but that’s kind of like starting off with a typewriter and then stepping up to a PC. Hope you’re old enough to know what a typewriter is.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.
Another vote for an early start in DCC. It will allow you to run the latest technology immediately, so you won’t buy things that you will later on find you have no use for. I think DCC is especially valuable on a small layout, because small layouts are very inefficient in time and dollars to “block wire,” and that’ the only way to run multiple trains on DC.
Go to your LHS and listen to a new sound-equipped DCC engine. Some of these have “tricks” for running some of the sounds on DC, but even the best are limited if you can’t run DCC. For the sound capability alone, DCC is worth the extra dollars early on.
If you can swing it, go DCC. You won’t regret it. Even without a fancy sound locomotive, the ability to run multiple locomotives where you want without regard to artificial electrical block boundaries and to just run the train, not flip switches, makes it MORE than worth it.
–Randy
I agree with everyone else to go with DCC from the start.
I’m new to model railroading also. After reading the difference between DC and DCC it was a no-brainer. I’m not much on wiring so after reading what was involved in a DC layout I wasn’t thrilled. DCC is much easier and as the others have stated you run the trains not work the layout.
I went with an NCE radio system but there are several systems available from other manufacturers to meet your needs.
Go with a decent DCC system from the start, you won’t be dissapointed.
Bill
Great thanks for all the imput!! However, what systems would be the best to go with or at least look into, or even which systems should I stay away from. Like I said I am very new at model railroading. I am so new my cherry has dents in it still!! HAHAHA! [:)] Thanks for all the advice!! I continue to look foward to your posts…
Ben
Well, as we have suggested, the decision is entirely yours. What works in the way of ergonomics and architecture for one person does not sit well with another person. For example, many find Digitrax to be quirky and difficult to learn intuitively. It happens that I use Digitrax, and the learning curve was quite daunting at first. Suddenly, though, I realized that I was controlling two locomotives at once, and having a ball making each do flange squeel, ringing its bell, accelerating and decelerating independantly, and so on. Wiring is a cinch once you read up on it and digest the diagrams.
Another example is the presentation of the architecture…I am speaking of the hand-held throttle, or the paddle. Digitrax’s DT 400 is a miracle of good engineering and user feedback. It uses encoders to control train movement, while some others use potentiometers that cause funny things to happen unless you are focused when acquiring and re-acquiring locomotives on the fly. This is all Greek to you? Well, ya hasta pay yer dues and do some serious studying, finding clubs and other modellers who have different systems, and trying them. At some point, you will say, “Okay, I now know what I like in a DCC system, and this is it.”
As an old analog DC operator who has no intention of changing over, what I am about to type smacks of heresy, but…
If I was starting with a clean slate (new hobby or different scale) I would go DCC in a heartbeat. The advantages, ranging from simpler track wiring to simpler operation of multiple trains (no track control switches to flip!) far outweigh the somewhat higher initial cost. Likewise, all of the better quality locos now come either DCC ready or DCC compatible (easy to install a decoder.)
Operating strictly DC analog when DCC is a reasonable option is like having access to a piano, but only playing on the first 22 keys. By all means, use the whole keyboard.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I am still a Digitrax guy. I have the Super Chief and love it. The Zepher is almost as good and slightly cheaper. The Empire Builder is old and does not really work right. For me the great toys are:
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The DT400 throttle. I can run 2 or 3 trains at one time with that.
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The UT 100 throttle. My grandkids learned to run it in about 30 seconds flat.
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Radio. I didn’t start with radio, but once I had it, WOW. I can now walk around with my engine like a real engineer. Both throttles come with radio.
If you’re just starting out don’t even think about DC! DCC brings a whole new dimension (actually several dimensions) to the model railroading experience. You will love it!
After you have an idea as to what scale (HO, N, etc.) you would like to run, know what space you have available, have a feel for what kind of operation you would like to model, how many trains to run at the same time, future expansion possibilities, etc., members of this forum can give you great help in choosing a specific DCC system.
You’ve already received some of that type of help on this thread but keep in touch and just do a lot of dreaming and planning as that’s half the fun. Don’t hesitate to ask questions on this forum as there is a wealth of experience available to you here.
Ben,
I am going to suggest another approach that is an alternative route to the same end point. There is no doubt in my mind that DCC is ultimately where you want to be. But like you, I was a little wary of spending DCC entry level money $150-ish when I in my case, I was not sure if the hobby was going to be all I wanted (Shame on me for thinking that way!!) so I planned my layout for DCC but ran with a cheap DC power-pack or 3, for close to 2 years before making the switch to DCC. I went with the Digitrax Zephyr system so 2 of my DC power-packs are still in use as static DCC jump throttles, a unique feature to the Zephyr. You don’t have to spend a lot to get a decent DC throttle, there are tons of them for sale at train shows and on e-bay. My theory is that you can get some trains running and have some fun while saving and learning about what you want in a DCC system.
Ok, lets think for a minute. A couple of question are in order. how big of a layout and how much do you want to spend. If you have a small layout than I might suggest analog simply because of cost for you. Money is always an issue. A good starter Dcc might cost you some where around 200 to 300 bucks including decoders for your engines. If you do what I did you spred it out over time, while you are buiding your layout. Things go on-sale, you go to train shows as-such. A good Dc power pack will cost 60 to 100 bucks. An entry level Dcc system about 120, of course without any decoders for your engines. If you want my advise I would buy one cheap powerpack to get started, just to test thinks to make sure they work. Than decide on DCC or DC. Most will advise you to go Dcc. I started my layout on Dc and converted. I run a prodigy. Like it just fine. Doesn’t have all the bells and whistles but it offers all I need for now.
Let me just throw my [2c] in here. Having used digitrax DCC for my own 4X6 layout this last year I can say that DCC is a much superior method of control of model trains for those people who like to get in there in the thick of it and be the locomotive engineer on their layouts. However thats not the method I like to operate my layout by, being more the “Dispatcher” of the whole territory rather than the engineer. To this end DC block control is more suitible to my personal tastes because it lets me line up blocks, set switches ect in a CTC type manner and let me “Lord” over my self made domain and let the little 3/4" tall pink plastic people be my “minions”. Might sound weird to most people, but Im not really big for high technology anyway. I just replaced my computer with a typewriter in an ongoing process to simplify my life, writting this post on a computer down at the public library.
James
There are a couple of questions that you need to answer while you consider the advice you’re getting.
First, what scale are you planning to operate in? O, S, HO, and N are well suited for DCC operations, with the larger scales being able to fully implement the sound capabilities at this stage. N suffers on the sound simply due to the limited room available for speakers, and I don’t know if anybody has even done a sound equipped Z scale loco. G is so honkin huge that often the locos are run by direct r/c with batteries in the loco, i.e. no track power, so DCC is irrelevant. Also, folks usually don’t have half a dozen (or more) locos and trains running around on a G layout.
Second, how many trains do you think you’ll want to run at once?
Now, my recommendation is to either go DCC right off the bat, or deliberately plan on going DCC after you get your feet wet. A single modest DC powerpack will have future utility regardless of what DCC system you get, as you can use it to supply power to accessories (lighting, animation, turnouts, signals, etc) on a DCC layout.
As for systems, the only one I would recommend that you stay away from is the Digitrax Empire Builder. Both the entry level Digitrax system (Zephyr) and the top shelf Super Chief allow you to read back the locomotive’s CV (configuration variables, i.e. the settings), the Empire Builder does not. I’m not familiar enough with the other systems to comment on them, except to say “make sure it can read back and display the CVs”. The only exception to this is the Bachmann E-Z Command system, which is very inexpensive. You can get the E-Z Command system with a DCC equipped HO locomotive for MSRP of $155. You’ll likely outgrow the DCC system itself, but the loco will be useable on any DCC layout, anywhere. In short, you can find out if DCC is for you…
Yes, in the long run DCC would be better if you’re starting from scratch.
But, it would be good if you could tell us a little more about yourself. What would your primary intersests be? Will you mainly likely to run trains, build structures and scenery, do you like carpentry, how about electrical work, wiring, etc., are you technically oriented, do enjoy computer work, do you think you would be skilled at wiring and soldering tiny electrical parts, would you be interested in joining a model railroad club, etc, etc.? How about your budget?
Maybe you really don’t yet know the answers to all of these things, but knowing some of your likes and dislikes could make a huge difference in determining your best course.
Dont ask me what DCC to start in.
I went ahead and got the 8 Amp Super Chief with the DT400 throttle and backed the whole works with a 2012 power supply. Expensive yes. But when you can put an engine down and program it without worrying about adequate power or some other itsy-bitsy show stopping annoying limited technology stuff Im glad I went the way I did.
Analog will always have a place on the workbench. There is a certain Tradition in opening a throttle and watching the choo choo respond to your commands with basic electricity.
I strongly encourage you to visit a club or local railroad that uses some form of DCC. Pick up the throttle and run a train for a bit. Perhaps throw some switches if the railroad is equipped. Maybe try different throttles if you can. My DT400 may not suit you at all. It might actually be another system totally different.
There is a great deal of reading, textbook learning and LOTS of questions with DCC. I myself is working on programming a set of engines with regard to stuff that still feels like Majic to me. The engine sits there mute and I wonder if it was “Taught” properly or not.
I have stated that Analog is on it’s way out. Many tell me Say it aint so! There is alot of room for Analog today with increasing numbers of engines coming out such as the Broadway Limited’s Blueline series that might allow you to have sound for now and get into decoders and DCC later.
One thing I will tell you, Ive been playing with… err… running trains for 30 years plus and it’s all a Journey. If Im so blessed to need and get 30 more years to totally become knowledgeable in DCC it would suit me just fine.
As you see, the majority opinion is DCC, and the most prevelent brand is Digitrax. I have MRC Prodigy Advance, which is a good unit and is priced in the low$200 range. One strong piece of advise, DONT GET THE OLD PRODIGY OR THE BACHMANN “STARTER” SET UP! These are as much a waste of money as a DC system you will most likely give up. Good luck!
Nitty Gritty: it’s a TRADEOFF
Starting out: People buy DCC because it’s simpler. Other People buy DC because it’s cheaper.
Sure, Originally advanced modelers went to ‘Carrier’, then ‘Command’ control. -which later 'morph’d into DCC.
DCC allows you to do extra things - for extra money: Control extra engines independently (= extra throttles), turn lights on and off , run 2 dissimilar engines as one, and NOT using toggles, are the principle ones.
DC cuts your trackage into sections or ‘blocks’ with an elecrical switch controlling each. The maximun no# of people running trains is generally two - if you buy the additional throttle.
BOTH run trains, Two trains need two throttles or cabs - but one requires toggle switches to keep trains separated, or from running into each other.
WHY doesn’t EVERYBODY have DCC? Maybe someday everybody will, but I doubt it. 1. Some of us DON’T want to spend $15 to $100 extra for engine decoder modules - then there are those with large engine collections.
2**. Electronics** typically obsoletes itself every 15 years: AC transformers to DC Power Paks io Transitor thottles to Carrier Control to Command Control, and now DCC -all in my lifetime. It’s called ‘‘Progress’’ WHAT’S NEXT?
3**. PROBABLY** DC or battery power with RF Wireless control? We already do that with our model airplanes, - as do some with Garden RR’s - like Rev. Bob .
NOW we get to the real Nitty Gritty: the PRACTICAL part: