DCC or DC - how to decide

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I was big into Lionel as a kid and have spent 40 years out of active railroading. I read a lot of magazines, but that was it. That is changing fast as I approach retirement. I am clearing out the basement for a big layout and I am trying to learn all about DCC. It all looks very cool but I have one big question. If you are only going to run 1 or 2 locomotives at a time do you really need DCC? I expect that years down the road I will expand, but can I get away with DC for now and am I giving up a lot if I do?

Thanks for your thoughts… Jim

2

Well, if you plan on running only one loco at a time, DC will suit you fine, but if you add just one more loco, you will have to invest a lot of effort into wiring, which you can spare by using DCC.

With DC, you control the track power, which requires some kind of routing, but with DCC, you control your loco. I think this says about all.

3

Hi Jim, welcome to the forum.

Do you have many locomotive already that would need to be converted to DCC? Do you have a lot of money tied up in DC power packs? If you are starting from scratch and have no investment in place already then I would go DCC from the start. If you are only planning to run 1 or 2 locos at a time you can easily get away with one of the lower cost entry system DCC systems, so your initial cost won’t be all that different.

4

Jim,

Welcome.

Good comments already.

I didn’t convert to DCC until I saw what was happening with sound locos and other functions which could be controlled remotely. Putting these little chips in the locos has opened up a lot of things you can do in a loco. Some are controlling engineer movements, couplers and different lighting effects. If you have grandchildren, sound will be good for their enthusiasm. If you want to experience all of what modern technology can bring to just 1 loco, DCC is valuable and not terribly expensive.

There are other items such as turnouts and signals you can control with a DCC cab as well.

Richard

5

I’m with Jim on this. I too was out of MR for about the last 15 years and have hopped back in only because of what I saw at a train show a bit over a year ago now. Amazing! I decide to ditch all of my old HO stuff and go HOn3 due to the Blackstone/Tsunami sound loco combo that was well presented at that one train show.

GO DCC, even with one loco. You will not regret it. Model Train Stuff sells the $225.00 Digitrax Zephyr starter system, (which is fabulous and about all you will need), for $169.00. Just do it!

Richard

6

Even with a single locomotive, the advantages of DCC are already evident, particularly with sound and lighting. Once you go to two engines, either operating independently or running together in a consist, the scale tips way over.

DC wiring for anything but the most basic layout gets complicated, while DCC wiring stays simple.

Today, pretty much all locomotives are sold either with decoders or without. The decoders themselves will handle DC operation, with some loss of functionality. If you compare prices, you’ll find that it’s cheaper to buy a decoder-equipped engine than to buy a DC-only engine and then add a decoder yourself, and the installation will almost certainly be better.

Go to a train show, or visit a train club. There’s a reason they’re all running DCC now.

7

Yes, MisterBeasley, I believe you can safely assert that locomotives are sold “with decoders or without” not sure what other alternatives there are? [(-D]

8

For what its worth…

If you are just not absolutely certain that model railroading will be a major hobby for you, I would suggest you start out with DC - if for nothing else than the fact its much less expensive and simpler to understand.

Should you wake up one morning and find that MR is a major force in your life - and will be with you “forever”, then get serious about moving over to DCC.

BUT, before you spend a lot of money into X, Y, or Z DCC stuff, give the folks on the Forum a shout for their input. Of course you do need to read all you can on the subject, and keep on eye on this Forum as well.

BTW, I was with DC since the early '60s, and went whole hog into DCC three years ago. It was an excellent decision, and I have never regretted it. BUT, it can be expensive and it can be complicated - depending…

9

Howdy, Jim. [#welcome] to the forums.

If, as I surmise, you are starting from a bare plate, my suggestion is that you get a DC locomotive that is DCC ready, and the least expensive analog DC power pack you can find.

Design your layout so that you can build just a small piece at a time, get some track down and wire up that DC pack. Get wheels turning as soon as possible! That way you will determine if you are a builder (Take a bow, Mr Beasley) or a runner (guilty as charged, yeronnor!) Or, heaven forfend, you might decide that, like my wife, offspring and granddaughters, you’d rather play golf!

If you decide to become a `serious’ model railroader, then you should make your second and all succeeding pieces of motive power DCC and invest in a solid DCC system. Pull the jumper board on your first loco and replace it with a DCC decoder. You can recycle that DC power pack as a power supply for structure lights and Tortoise switch machines.

Note that this is a , “Do as I say, not as I do,” recommendation. I NEVER got wholly disconnected from model railroading and now have 74 years seniority. I’m building a double garage filling layout to a very specific prototype, time and location. I have a large roster and operate using a rather complex to install but very user friendly analog DC control system (the design of which has 38 years’ seniority!) OTOH, if I ever change scales (to On30) I would go DCC from the git-go.

Once again, welcome. Whatever you do, have fun.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL system)

10

Thanks. Like a broken clock, I try to be right at least twice a day.

11

The key in your quesiton is the number 2. If you are planning on running two locomotives independently and simlutaniously there are basically two choices. Go with DC and install the track blocks and wiring for two cab block control or go with DCC and install electronics into the locomotives.

Now in this day and age I am guessing you will not even need to install the electronics of the second option as even some Bachmann locos are coming with the electronics installed at the factory. It is not hard to find DCC installed in locomotives off the shelf.

Nothing says you could not build the layout and run 1 locomotive DC until such time you are ready to add the second train, then switch to DCC.

I am a 45 year expert in DC block cab control wiring yet I still recommend DCC as soon as the 2nd train is added to the mix.

12

GO DCC, even with one loco. You will not regret it. Model Train Stuff sells the $225.00 Digitrax Zephyr starter system, (which is fabulous and about all you will need), for $169.00. Just do it!

I would suggest you go for it, Digitraz Zephyr for $169.00, it’s a bargain, and if you decided not to pursue DCC, you will get your money back by selling it for that price. But DCC is like eating one potato chip, impossible not to have an appitite for it. Once you put your first sound loco on the track and start it up and listen to the engine start and watch it crawl even at the slowest speed that you can’t possibly duplicate using the best DC power supply, and giving it a little throttle, listening to the engine rev up and moving on down the track WOW! Now put 2 loco’s on the same track with DCC and operate at different speeds, or in fact going different directions, you’ll be sold, no question. Once I started DCC, I have no regrets and never looked back. And I started with the cheapest system available, won’t mention the manufacturer, and it had limited expansion, but all in all it bit me enough to want more! I too recommend Digitrax and there are other fine DCC systems, but I have purchased other Digitrax components and I am very pleased with them! Jim

13

DCC shows advantages even with one locomotive, and this involves the performance of the locomotive. I have seen a Model Power Mogul and Atlas C420 run on and off of DCC, and they perform far better on DCC than they did on DC.

Also, you can really see what kind of wiring you need for a DC layout by looking if you look a wiring schematics for a simple Lionel layout if you want independent control. While with DCC, you just need to hook up the system, and you’re set to go.

14

Jim,

Being that this is your first post, understand that this subject sometimes cause people to get all juiced up over relatively minor misstatements about either system. People have invested a lot of time, effort, and money into their operating system so it is natural to want to defend those decisions. So far the comments have been very helpful and on point.

Nobody can decide for you what is best. Good to see you asked for thoughts and not answers.

I have a simple DC layout that operates one locomotive. The reason is because I have no desire to watch or control two trains moving at the same time, or to have one locomotive hand off a train to another. I haven’t had that desire for about 20 years now, and I don’t see that changing much. Even for those who like to watch two trains at the same time relatively unattended, they seem to find it easier to have two separate mainlines than to let the operating system separate the trains on one mainline.

Layouts can be simple or complicated. If its complicated, neither DC nor DCC will eliminate complexity. Complexity requires more circuitry. It can be installed under the layout by you as with DC or installed on a locomotive decoder and inside a power controller by a factory as with DCC. Understanding how to operate the circuitry requires a learning curve for both. With DC you have to spend time installing the circuitry yourself. With DCC you have to spend money to have the factory install it for you.

Some report that with DC, you’ll be flipping toggle switches constantly to control the track’s power from block to block (if operating more than one train at a time). Some report that with DCC, you’ll need to spend time programming locomotives to get the full benefit of all of the functions available, which is what your’e paying for. &

15

I would say that you are almost spot on with your comments, but for the last section. Used DC power packs are a dime-a-dozen at train shows around here. Boxes of them for sale a knock down prices. Check eBay as well, there are usually many of them for sale at low prices getting little interest. This is because there are so many being retired as folks convert to DCC. On the other hand, the used market for DCC components holds is value very well. I have purchased and watch for Digitrax parts. Used and obsolete Digitrax throttles sell for what I consider to be silly money, not much less than brand new current models. So in my experience, I would say the exact opposite is true. DC packs don’t hold value, DCC components do. The good news is that if you want to go DC, you can really do it on the cheap as the re-sale value is so low.

16

If you’re big into electrician type work, than DC will work fine!! Taking a small layout and dividing it up into 10 separate power blocks so you can operate two engines at the same time for example. If you like wiring DPDT switches, DC is for you!!

But if you just want to run two wires to the track and be able to run two or more engines completely independently, then you should go ahead and do DCC.

FWIW I would spend the extra money and get one good sound equipped DCC engine. It’s too easy to want to get “one of everything” right away, but getting one or two good sound equipped DCC engines will be a better choice in the long run.

BTW don’t be intimidated by the options DCC offers. If you want you can just set up a programming track (easy to do) so you can change the ID number of each engine from the default 03 to the engine on the cab side. The other CV’s (Control Values) come from the factory with defaults that will work fine as is. As you learn more, you can “tweak” some CV’s to change how the engine starts and stops (momentum), change the horn or whistle, etc. But you don’t have to do any of these things to run trains.

17

Simon,

Thanks for correcting my comments as it applies to used power sources, etc… I guess I’ve never priced out used power equipment in that way. And DC power packs can be abused by overloading too.

My comments were

18

I agree with you on that point about the decoders. My son’s tend to look for cheap deals at train shows. They have picked up a few locos with horrendous DCC installations that simply did not work. I would much rather purchase a tested DC loco and do my own decoder installation. However I derive a great deal of pleasure in taking a basket case and turning it into a nice running DCC loco.

19

Stix,

I think some of your comments have embedded assumptions in there, but I agree with the comment about spending extra money to get a good quality sound equipped locomotive, if the OP goes DCC.

May as well pay the money and learn about all of the options to get the full benefit of DCC.

Which is somewhat contradictory from your last paragraph. Why would he want to spend extra money for DCC just to do nothing except run it like the factory set it up, when he can do that by spending a lot less for a DC set up?

I’m just thinking out loud here…

20

A lot of folks take a factory equipped DCC loco and do nothing but change the address from the default 03 to the road number. The factory default settings for the decoder will generally have the lighting effects, as appropriate, set up and of course the sound scheme. In most all cases the loco will run very nicely this way, allowing control of lighting and sound effects.

I take things a little further and typically reduce all the sound volumes to more acceptable levels, and perhaps fool a bit with the starting voltages to get the unit to perform really well at slow speeds.

Then you can kick it up a notch more and play around with speed tables to match the speeds of different locos throughout their range so as to allow for good multi-unit operation.

But back to the original point, an out of the box DCC loco with factory settings will do things that an out of the box DC loco will not. It is certainly not a requirement to mess with CV’s to get enjoyment out of the DCC loco.